Lehman won't start!

[Boatmon]

OK, we took The Lass out a week ago and made a flawless 20 run. Yesterday we had some friends coming out in the evening, so about 4:30 or so we warm up the engine and let it run for like 30 min or something, then shut her down. They show up we say hello's I fix exerybody drinks, turn on the ignition to take a sunset cruise......and nothing. No temp buzzer, no starter, no nothing.

We have 13.6 volts on the batteries, when you turn on the key the gauges bounce and the hour meter ticks but nothing else.

Any ideas from the board would be greatly welcomed,

[jleonard]

you have a bad connection somewhere. I would start with the grounds to the engine.

[brookesmith]

Very Interesting. My 79 36' is wired very bizarre in my estimation for the KEY CIRCUIT. The battery selector switch at the helm determines whether the starting battery or house battery is used to power the KEY SWITCH. Turning the switch to off will disable the KEY CIRCUIT. My boat HAD NO FUSE PROTECTION in the KEY CIRCUIT. The START button wire that runs back to the starter got pinched between the starter motor and block; frayed through and tried to start a small electrical fire. (The starter was replaced by my marina yard about a year ago and I suppose the wire got pinched then and wore through). BUT THE YARD DIDN'T FACTORY WIRE THE CIRCUIT WITHOUT A FUSE. I studied the battery switch and noticed two other circuits had no fuse protection and were wired directly to the common terminal of the battery switch. Both of those circuits went to the flybridge. I installed a new 6 circuit fuse panel in the wiring closet and have fused all circuits coming from the common terminal of the battery switch. I had to run new wires to ALL of the engine sensors as the overheated start button overheated wire melted much of the insulation on the wires in the harness. You just might want to look around in your wiring closet in your forward hanging locker..

Also alarming to me is the entire 12V breaker panel is fed with what appears to be a single #10 wire from the battery switch common terminal. Each breaker is daisy chained off this single wire (read undersized and single point of failure for the entire 12V breaker panel). #10 wire will handle about 30 amps of current and could not possibly handle a stormy night with windshield wipers; search light, interior lighting; water pump; etc. To me this is just another wiring fire waiting to happen. I have not corrected this situation YET. But intend to soon. The breakers are in a terrible location/reach in the wiring closet... But I Intend to break the daisy chain in groups of 3 or 4 breakers and feed each group with #8 wire to the battery switch common terminal or install a buss to feed them. I already ran a new # 2 yellow battery cable to the negative terminal of the house battery and installed a new negative buss in the wiring closet. I had 3 connections under several screws and the old negative terminal strip was green etc and a single black wire that ran to the house battery negative terminal INTERPRET THIS AS TOO LITTLE RETURN PATH TO THE GROUND/NEGATIVE BATTERY TERMINAL..
The 1979 wiring was probably OK and met minimum standards. But the batteries are a LONG distance from the wiring closet. Too long and skinny negative ground lead and unprotected wiring is what I see in LOTS of the DC circuitry.
The AC was a mess too with ALL sockets wired incorrectly with the hot and neutral reversed. You might just pick up one of those test plugs from Lowes or H.D. and check your AC sockets polarity..

By now I hope you have found the battery switch in the off position and moved it to start your motor..
I also hope you are concerned about your boat wiring...

Brooke Smith
Liquid Therapy
Deltaville Marina

[bccanucker]

Do you hear a click?
Maybe starter broke.
Is there a breaker or fuse in the starter line?

[DougSea]

Is she in neutral? (I ask this having recently experienced a non-starting engine...only to find I had bumped the shifter...)

[Boatmon]

Thanks, for the replies thus far. The "20 run" in the first post was actually suppose to be a 20 mile run.

She is out of gear, but there is actually no neutral safety switch either and will start in gear.

Typically when the ignition switch is turned on, there is buzzing from the high temp alarm which stops after the engine runs for a few seconds. That isn't happening at this point.

I checked voltage at the ignition switch and have 3.5 volts?? it's just enough to make the needles bounce and that's all. I've looked in the electrical closet and nothing jumps out, but as you all know it's not the easiest thing to follow either.

I don't find any in-line fuses anywhere, but I agree with jleonard that there must be a bad ground somewhere. I just haven't found it yet.

Going out after work this afternoon to see if I can make any head-way on it. With the long holiday weekend coming, I really don't want to spend it sitting at the dock.

[jleonard]

< >

[Boatmon]

Thank you Jleonard!

Actually just spoke with a friend of mine who is a marine diesel mechanic, he is going to meet me around 3:30 at the boat, I'm sure this will answer some questions.

[DougSea]

Nice Jay!

[Boatmon]

My diesel buddy Moe met me at the boat at 3:30 yesterday, when he stepped aboard he says "you know this is going to be something stupid don't you?"

After a quick tour he meerly glanced at the schematic and got right to work. After two or three minutes with the meter he says "turn on the ignition" I do and the flowmeter buzzed! Then after a few more he says "bump the starter" I did and it rolled over but didn't engage. He says "got a couple 9/16" wrenches there sunshine?" He tinkers for a minute or two and says "try to start her once" And she fires up, just like always!!

What he found was that the ground wires on the starter (which I checked Sunday) were tight to each other, but the stud they were attached to had backed out (or was maybe never tight) to a point that contact was broken.

She fired up 5 or six times last evening with no trouble.

He gave her a "well diesel check-up" and said that over all he was fairly impressed with the apparent upkeep and overall condition of the engine and generator over the years. Also went over the basics of maintaining her.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts, it's always nice to have a forum to sound for thoughts and ideas! And THANK YOU Moe for your time and knowledge!!!
A nice easy fix!

Enjoy your 4th of July weekends...

[jleonard]

you have a bad connection somewhere. I would start with the grounds to the engine.

Glad it was that easy

[Boatmon]

"Someone" told me that it sounded like an engine ground Thanks again Jay

But I am really glad that's all it was!

[brookesmith]

I'm glad it was simple - ground to the starter. Makes me want to go check mine. I believe I will.

[Boatmon]

On Sunday when I was looking, I had grabbed the ground wires and they were snug. As I said before it was to each other though, had I investigated better with the meter, it would have been obvious what was happening. But when you're frustrated and worried about your baby it's too easy to over think things.

The bonus, Moe gave us a visual inspection, some pointers and we had a beer together after he saved the day (or weekend as it were)

____________________________________________________________________________

Having restored and refit 3 boats prior to this one, I know the value in having a place to look/ask for the help of folks with similar vessels. It is a great resource and peace of mind knowing that someone has probably encountered the same situation you're in, before.

Thank you AOG! I appreciate the in-put.

[seblyte]

Hi, I have a 83' 36 classic which I'm restoring and have been admiring your swim platform. Did you have it made up? If so roughly how much did it cost? A quick point on the engine. Is it actually beneficial to run a diesel for 30 mins at the dock? I only ask this because I was always told that an idling diesel could clog up and needed a load. Be grateful for your reply. Yours, Sebastian