TE 28 Issues with the two larger Cummins engines.

[fighterpilot]

I have scanned all the information I can find on the subject through the 32 listed page links on the TE 26-35 forum in an attempt to familiarize my self with the good and the not so good on the TE 28. Only interested in the boats with the larger Cummins. The loud noise level was noted regarding the larger two Cummins engines, in fact, one comment was "needed ear plugs". Now was this because sound insulation was faulty due to age or did it leave a lot to be desired, even when new?? For what ever reason can the sound level be lowered, within reasonable effort, using sounddown insulation as an example? Thinking engine box might be easier than flush deck. But maybe there isn't clearance for the insulation.
Another issue seems to be the exhaust system and water damaging the turbo. If a modification hasn't been made should I allow cost considerations to be such that it needs to be done??
Other than these two items are there any other "gotchas" when considering the two larger Cummins engines as the engines of choice.? Thanks

[Norseman]

I wanted the big Cummins as well but decided to buy a Yanmar powered boat instead.
Also heard about the water problem and the noise problems.
My cruising speed is just fine at 17 knots with the Yanmar.
Any faster and the range go way down or a bigger tank is needed, more $$ in either case.

[jetter]

I have a 370b. The engine is loud but Ruddy Duck has an Alaskan Door which I keep closed underway when over 1400rpm. The 370 is only available in the engine box model. There is soundproofing that was factory installed. I added additional soundproofing on the bulkhead between the engine compartment and locker area under helm. This did reduce the noise. Albin also had an factory option to increase the soundproofing. If you can find a boat with the option I would recommend it as installing now would be a very difficult job.
As to water intrusion, I have not had a problem but the boat has always been in fresh water and has not operated in ocean swells.

[fighterpilot]

If I understand your soundproofing--boat came with factory installed soundproofing, but not the additional factory option kind? You added more--do you think yours equals the additional factory option if it had been installed. Can you carry on a conversation in the helm area with out shouting. Do you think there is any noticeable difference in the noise level created by the 370 versus the Cummins 300/315 or what ever it is? Do you think a person with good hearing, would feel the need for ear plugs in the helm area? My wife has super sensitive hearing where as I am hard of hearing. It might be a problem for her??
What do you think? Ray

[Pitou]

I have scanned all the information I can find on the subject through the 32 listed page links on the TE 26-35 forum in an attempt to familiarize my self with the good and the not so good on the TE 28. Only interested in the boats with the larger Cummins. The loud noise level was noted regarding the larger two Cummins engines, in fact, one comment was "needed ear plugs". Now was this because sound insulation was faulty due to age or did it leave a lot to be desired, even when new?? For what ever reason can the sound level be lowered, within reasonable effort, using sounddown insulation as an example? Thinking engine box might be easier than flush deck. But maybe there isn't clearance for the insulation.
Another issue seems to be the exhaust system and water damaging the turbo. If a modification hasn't been made should I allow cost considerations to be such that it needs to be done??
Other than these two items are there any other "gotchas" when considering the two larger Cummins engines as the engines of choice.? Thanks

I applaude you for doing your research as most topics have been covered upside down and sideways in previous posts, but there is always a new wrinkle or extension to be discussed.

My '02 engine box with the 6B 370 was ordered with the extra sound package and conversations in the pilot house could be carried on comfortably. I also had the Alaskan bulkhead winterback. In 9 seasons no one ever indicated that the engine noise was too loud. I use to sneak in business calls while underway with the Alaskan bulkhead door closed and I never got busted for being on my boat. That extra sound package insulated the cockpit deck forward of the fuel tank, port & starboard hatch covers, engine box, both sides of the bulkhead between the engine bilge compartment and pilot house bilge compartment side to side port to starboard on both sides, cabin bulkhead, pilot house deck, center hatch cover and inside the helm & companion seat pedestals. With all things being apples to apples, would a 315 Yanmar have been quieter .. I'm sure that the answer would be yes. The thing to remember is that a lot of general statements are made about this or that, but these boats though being production builds often had variations due to some being custom ordered by the dealer as a demo or show boat, a buyer's custom order or a basic model for inventory. The boats also evolved over the years to have more included on the base boat as the years went on. I'd look at each boat for consideration on its own merits. My current 31 was custom built as a show boat for Lauderdale and came through loaded. The original owner prior to me was from NY and this hull had lots of road miles on her before it's first registration; traveling from the factory in RI to FL and then back to Long Island.

As far as possible water intrusion through the turbo .. yes the spillover is below the standard norm of 12 inches in height for turbp protection as it is in most applications on the 28 and most other production builds. The time that this would most likely become an issue is if you were out fishing with the engine off in a fair ocean swell and confused sea state. When I found myself in that situation I left the engine running. That was my solution and I had pulled the mixing elbow to inspect 2X during my ownership and I had zero signs of intrusion. Also, the mixing elbow was stainless steel. Pulling the mixing elbow during a survey will be telling and worth your expense. In an ideal world an owner would redesign the exhaust to obtain proper spillover height but very few do and it would be rare. I redid the exhaust on my 31 as the spillover was at 9" and not at 12". I now exceed the 12. Remember, there are very few production boats that leave the factory and meet this standard. For a better understanding of spillover check out the Seaboard Marine site and read "Tony's Tips". His site is an invaluable free site that all marine diesel owners should frequent in order to gain knowledge.

All the best and enjoy hunting for your future Albin .. They're great boats!

[RobS]

IDo you think there is any noticeable difference in the noise level created by the 370 versus the Cummins 300/315 or what ever it is?

No. The 315/330 and the 355/370 are identical engines for the purpose of what you are concerned with here.

[jetter]

Hi Ray
Kevin pretty well summed it up. Even with the additional soundproofing I installed I would only call the noise level " tolerable ". The factory upgrade
over the standard soundproofing was a $1,350 option in 2001. It sounds like Kevin's boat had the option. If noise is a major issue your may wish to look for a boat with the optional upgrade or consider a Yanmar.

[fighterpilot]

Great replys. Most appreciated. Since our run to fishing grounds will be about 2 hours at high rpm cruise speed it would be wise for me to try for the additional sound proofing--or keep looking for a different brand boat. Having had two boats with Yanmars I know they would be quieter, but I am not going to go with the 6cyl Yanmar. Maybe would try twin 4 cyl 240s but that would be in a different brand boat. I'll keep in mind the Albin 28TE should have the optional soundproofing. From what I have read on your forum it would be very difficult to add soundproofing to the existing configuration, if it wasn't added during the build. On the Californian with the twin 3208s I put sounddown undercarpet layment which helped, and on the Aquasport Tournament Masterm with the Yanmar 240s, I added sounddown insulation to the engine boxes which also made a difference, but both of those configurations were an easy addition and made the noise level acceptable for conversation. Thanks again for the information.

[Norseman]

. but I am not going to go with the 6cyl Yanmar.

Curious to as why not....?
(Yeah, they have their demons, but so does every boat and every motor)

Where in Florida are you?
If close to FLL come for a ride on a Yanmar boat, pretty smooth running machine, like the owner.
(Civilian pilot, no fighter pilot )

[fighterpilot]

The Yanmar in use had valve seal problems in the years that I can afford. Also, the engine has a lot of aluminum in it which is also potential further problems. Also the engine had service requirements at around 800 hours and 1200 hours. Further challenges for me to manage in a used boat. Were they done? Are they up coming, etc.
Finally my Yanmar service here is a good old boy working out of his garage. Literally you walk down the hill from his one room office and lift up a garage door to get into the shop. He is a nice person the situation is more than I want take on.
Every one can work on Cummins and the parts are readily available and cheaper. My thinking is a lot less riak involved with the Cummins than the 6cyl. Yanmar.
I'm in the panhandle of fl. Old fighter pilot with 200 combat mission over Vietnam. Also owned an old Piper TriPacer, followed by an old V tail Bonanza and the last one was a Piper Comanche with the 250 engine. I put tip tanks on it. But gave it up in the early 70s.

Anyway, appreciate your vote of confidence-maybe starting with a new one would have more confidence in having one in the boat.

[Norseman]

. The Yanmar in use had valve seal problems in the years that I can afford. Also, the engine has a lot of aluminum in it which is also potential further problems. Also the engine had service requirements at around 800 hours and 1200 hours.

Yes, the Yanmar motors had a valve problem.
It was all fixed under warranty (after a lawsuit)
My Yanmar got a new head with valves. No more problems.
Same with all other Yanmar that I know of.
There has been no valve problems the last 12-15 years, all done.
As for service requirements every 800-1200 hrs: That would be the timing belt.
I rejected a boat because of it, but the boat I did purchase had the belt changed twice with less than 800 hrs on the motor.
(Age or hrs, whateve comes first.)
Either way, not super expensive to maintain a Yanmar, just follow the maintenance manual’s requirements.
Roughly $1000.00 for the 1000 hr service, $ 1.00 per hour including the belt.
I bought my Albin 28TE eight weeks ago and happy as can be.

Civilian pilot, ex Alaskan bush pilot, DC- 3 Captain in the Caribbean, Lots of time on big shiny jets all over the world, all 3 seats.
Now retired @ 60 and have a small charter gig in Fort Lauderdale where the Albin will be enrolled shortly: www.odincharters.com

[fighterpilot]

From what I have read on this forum and some others the warranty fix was a hit and miss thing. Many indicated Yanmar was non responsive in some cases, but that is of course one of the items in considering a boat with that engine, does it have the fix? And is there a good paper trail of the maintenance on the boat. Having to change a timing belt twice with less than 800 hours sort of highlights my discomfort with the engine. I wish you good luck in your forth coming endeavor. I think you have a good boat for the task.

[Norseman]

. Having to change a timing belt twice with less than 800 hours sort of highlights my discomfort with the engine

Timing belt should be changed every 5 years, or every 1250 hours.
Not too unreasonable in my book.
If indeed you have made up your mind about this or that engine, so be it.

[fighterpilot]

The irony of this situation is that the Cummins engines in this installation also have their problems. Design plumbing for the exhaust system wasn't done well and one can get water intrusion up into the turbo section. Also, the noise level is quite high unless you got the optional sound proofing. So, will probably give up on the Albin 28 since I can't seem to find a combination that works for me. If the boat had the optional sound proofing, and the exhaust system altered per one of the suggested ways in Boatdiesel.com than I believe it would work. And could be bought for 50K. But, highly unlikely, so will continue to search. There are other boat models that would work, but would have to find them with the Cummins. Threre are two others I am working with the owners for information, and have missed a couple that were sold quickly, so the search moves on. Thanks for your advice, information, will continue to check the listing for the Albin, but now know what I am looking for in that boat.

[RobS]

Fair points made by both sides...........
I was in a similar pickle when upgrading from my 28TE to my next boat. Was set on going to Cummins power. Was also interested in the 35CB. But not a fan of the Cummins power in the 35CB due to turbo/exhaust access & routing. The Yanmar 6LY 370 is the better fit for the 35CB.