Repower time -- lifeboat take-out

[motthediesel]

I haven't been very active here for a while, but we are still loving our old 27FC, "West Hawk", and I'm now getting ready to repower it. I'm going to be replacing our good old 4D61 with a low-hours Beta 50, sourced from a scrapped lifeboat -- in India! It's a pretty interesting tale, and I think some of you might enjoy it -- adventures in bottom feeding!

Tom

[Nancy]

Welcome back, Tom! Do tell the story!

[motthediesel]

OK, so why get rid of the Peugeot? It's a great engine, and (I think) the best of the "original equipment" power plants these boats came with. Ours still starts and runs well, but it is nearly 40 years old now, and it was designed with technology much older than that. It runs economically, and cleanly -- once it's warmed up. When it's cold though, it's not a good neighbor to anyone else in the marina, anchorage, or mooring field. It makes blue smoke, and lots of it, for 5 mins or so at every cold startup.

The other problem is parts, maybe in Europe this would not be the case, but here in North America, it is a lonely orphan indeed. Parts can be found, but they are not easy or cheap to get shipped here. It would be nice to be able to get parts and supplies easily, from a US distributor, or even from a local (hint) tractor dealership.

I've read lots about all the small marine diesels available here, and read plenty of reviews, and you just don't hear much bad about Beta/Kubota engines. Also, the fact that I am a very satisfied Kubota tractor owner doesn't hurt. So I determined to look into finding a Beta for our boat.

(to be continued)

[tribologist]

Looking forward to this…. There is an infinite supply of old engines in india. Im very curious to learn what the customs think about them..they stopped imports of Listeroids but maybe a used engine is different?

[motthediesel]

So, I looked into what it would take to buy a new Beta 50 for our FC27. And what I found was that it would be around $20k, so close to what we paid for our boat 5 years ago. That’s a lot of money for me, and that’s just not in the cards for now.

So what about looking for a good used one — but where to look? We live in Northern NY, and while there is a lot of boating here in The Thousand Islands, it’s just not small diesel country. This is where outboards and stern drives rule, and very few sailboats are to be found. So, I tried EBay, and that’s where I came upon a company listing all kinds of small marine diesels, low-hours take-outs from scrapped lifeboats. Sure enough, they included a listing for a Beta 48hp, with only 11hrs on the clock, for just over $5k.

Now that’s more like it! The problem is — they were in India. This triggered all kinds of alarm bells for me, as it seemed an inherently risky deal on a number of levels. First — were they a trustworthy merchant? Next, what would be involved in shipping it half way around the world, and importing it into this country? What about EPA regulations, what about shipping costs, what about duty charges?

First, for the seller. I checked their EBay ratings, and while they didn’t have a huge number of sales, they were rated at 100% satisfaction. I checked the feedback, and one thing I noticed was that everyone said their communications were very good — in my experience, that is very important with EBay sellers. Then, having found their business name in the listing, I Googled them to see if the had a website, and if it seemed legitimate. They did, and I was actually quite impressed by it. Among all the information was a company history that I found quite compelling, and there was even a picture of their “current stock” room where I could pick out the same engine that they had shown in the EBay listing.

Next, I talked to my niece, who is a professional merchant seaman (3rd mate on a Great Lakes bulk carrier) about lifeboats and how they are serviced. She said that as 3rd mate, one of her duties is to board the lifeboat once a month and start the engine. That sort of service would not put much time on the clock, so the idea of a 15 year old engine with only 10 or so hours on it was entirely believable.

So far, so good, but what about shipping and importing?


To be continued:

[tribologist]

Suspense!!!! And????

[motthediesel]

I'm such a tease!

Well, I live right on the Canadian border, and, as luck would have it, there is a Customs Brokerage house right down the road from me, so I called them. I spoke with a very knowledgeable and experienced women there, and after I explained to her what I was contemplating, she gave me some valuable advice. She said that what I was doing was possible, but that it would require a lot of diligence on my part, and lots of help on both the shipping and receiving ends. The pitfalls were real, she said, and they probably could be overcome -- but I needed to go in with my eyes open.

I should mention that my research showed that it is theoretically possible to handle this entirely on your own, without a broker, but the more I looked into it, the more certain I became that it would be false economy. There are also online options, but I decided if I was to take the plunge, I would want someone I could call when I got into trouble. That's what you are paying them for, and in my case, it was well worth it.

I was also given a basic list of what paperwork would be required, customs clearances, bill of lading, EPA clearance, and others. I was most concerned about the EPA, what would be required there? That turned out to be not so bad at all, as the seller had posted a close-up picture of the Kubota compliance decal on the valve cover. That showed the engine to be EPA tier 4 compliant, and I was assured that should be enough.

At this point, I took a deep breath, and sent a DM to the seller on Ebay, just to try to get a feel for what sort of guy he was, and if I really was willing to commit myself to the deal.

(to be continued)

[Ambler27FC]

I installed a BETA50 about 4 years ago, and it has been a real champ - as I suppose as any new diesel should be. But the simplicity of the thing - the maintenance on the cooling system, the smart alternator belt, the reduced external piping - all wonderful. I think I'm up to 600 hours. The A27 I think wants a 60HP engine, but with a clean bottom and prop I've been hitting around hull speed with about a 1 GPH RPM.

Suspect you already know that the cost to install could easily be as much as a factory engine. I went cheap and just got the darned thing in there. Renting lifting equipment alone might have been half the cost. But I spent a week re-working the exhaust and fine-tuning the shaft/coupling alignment and it got done, really a good value for me at the time. After seeing how it is done, I might have done the whole thing myself. The manuals BETA publishes are pretty good. But I suspect you are already more advanced at this.

Please post on the progress! Afraid I've seen things held up at customs for months, the details really can get you. And the small diesel market seems limited everywhere.

Very envious you are on the St. Lawrence! Been there twice for diving, and for 3 months of the year anyway it seems like one of the best places in the world.

[motthediesel]

And so I heard back from the seller, and he said that shipping to the US would be no problem. He would see that every thing was taken care of on his end, and that he would provide shipping to any US container port for $400! That seemed hard to believe, but he assured me that he did it all the time. That said, he also warned me that I had a roll to play too, and if I didn’t do my part on the paperwork, I could be subject to never receiving the engine, and getting major fines as well.

That caused some worries for me, and so I dithered a bit, and exchanged a few more messages with the seller. By now I had a good feeling about him, he seemed like a straight shooter, and he was always quick to respond to my questions, but I was still a little hesitant. Finally, he sent me a DM reminding me that the EBay listed price was “OBO” — so make him an offer. That did it I guess, so I offered him a good bit less than asking, and he immediately accepted.

OK, so now I’m into it!

(To be continued)

[DCatSea]

Diesel-vultures circling.

Does your "old" engine have recoverable parts? Our venerable 4D61 is still banging on like a champ, but without the smoke. That said, I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering if you intend breaking it up and selling it for spare parts. If it comes off, someone might be interested in it. (Starter, fuel pump, live-aboard cockroaches???)

[motthediesel]

Diesel-vultures circling.

Does your "old" engine have recoverable parts?

Sure, I do plan on parting it out when I pull it, but we are going to be running it for the rest of this season yet.

I have two starters, those will be popular I’m sure, a good Hurth gearbox too. I don’t know what else might be needed, but I don’t think there’s much of a market for the complete engine.

Tom

[DCatSea]

Please let us know when you part it out; no huge rush but as I have no plans to repower, a spare "just in case" starter would be desirable, as would a Hurth, heat exchanger, and fuel pump. I'm sure there are other bits if I think hard enough

[motthediesel]

OK, so the sale was handled like any other on Ebay, and payment was made by PayPal. I heard back from the seller as soon as it cleared on his end, and he got right to work on arranging shipment. This would be a "LCL" shipment, as in "Less Than Container Load" -- requiring transport to the container loader (called the "stuffer" I kid you not) for packing.

So I had to get busy on my end with paperwork. As the "importer of record", there was a list of hurdles to jump. A customs 5106 form, identifying me as the importer. A bond application, the before mentioned EPA form, and the all-important ISF form. This last one, I was told, was the most crucial, the "Importer Security Filing". This would certify to the Feds that I was not importing anything of a nefarious nature -- god help us! All these would need to be completed, but the ISF would need to be filed well in advance of loading, and the potential fines for this were frightening -- like $5k!

So on I went collecting and collating all the names, numbers, and destinations required. My man in India (the seller) was right on top of things and was a huge help to me. All things fell into place easily, but I ran into a problem with the ISF. By now I knew the name of the "stuffer" and the "shipper" in India, and I knew the name of the vessel (Hyundi Busan), and I knew the destination (NY), but I did not know the EXACT destination -- that is, which NY area container port? A funny thing, but nobody seemed to know that, not the seller, the stuffer, or the shipper. The form was quite clear though, each container port has it's own registration number, and there are like 6 separate ports listed as "NY", so I had to find which one it was.

I was at a loss, so I started Goggleing, and eventually I found a site where you could search for any ship by name, and it would list it's itinerary. Sure enough, I found my ship, and it's voyage from India to NY, and it's port destination there -- Newark! -- Another hurdle crossed...

To be continued:

[motthediesel]

So it came down to crunch time, and I had still not heard of confirmation on my all-important ISF form. Then I got a email from my broker saying my application was rejected! This caused a mad scramble on my part, as I didn't know just what the problem was. A few emails back and forth between the seller and my broker, and I realized I had entered a wrong registration number for the Indian forwarding company. That sorted, we were back on track, and the container was loaded and the ship set sail.

Living on the St Lawrence Seaway as I do, I have a ship tracking app on my phone, so I could actually see it's position in the container port in India, and I could see it underway after it cast off. I was curious to see if they would sail for the Red Sea/Suez route, what with the current troubles there. After a couple days it was clear that no, they would not be taking that chance, but taking the long route all the way south around the Cape of Good Hope!

So then it was a few weeks of watching my shipment travel all the way south to mid-winter in the Cape, then back up the central Atlantic, heading for the romantic port of Newark NJ. Nothing for me to do until it was a few days out.

to be continued:

[tribologist]

Suspense!!!!’