Electronics interface puzzle

[SalishAire]

Since I can't find an email address for Garmin support and know from experience that Raymarine has NO support for legacy products (other than to say, "you need to buy a new device", I put this puzzle to the group:

BACKGROUND: I have 2 chartplotters on Hyacinth. A current Garmin product and an older Lowrance product. Both have NEMA 0183 and NMEA 2000 capabilities. I also have an older Raymarine ST3000 autopilot which only "speaks" Seatalk v1 .

Originally I had my ICOM M300 VHF connected to the Garmin NMEA 0183 tx and rx with no problems (but the system was still untested as not a lot of folks use DSC in this area yet)

I decided it was worth a try to see if I could connect the ST3000 to the chartplotter using a translator (Raymarine Interface box) I purchased off ebay.

Outcome and puzzle:
The ST3000 seems to recognize that its connected to an data source but doesn't recognize any input data
The Garmin chartplotter kept rebooting every 5 minutes (I tried reset to factory, updating software, etc..... I finally recognized it only happened when the ICOM VHF (which had previously not been an issue) was turned on. The problem went away when I cut the 0183 wires between the Garmin and the VHF).

So it now stands that the translator box is still in place but the ST3000 doesn't recognize the data. (Question: does anyone know if GARMIN 0183 data sentences are standard as Garmin labels them in a non-standard manner!!!!)

The 0183 wires from the VHF to the Garmin are disconnected.

The ST3000 is operating via it internal compass in straight line fashion. The Garmin is not rebooting but has to access to the DSC data from the VHF.

Ideas?????

[DesertAlbin736]

Hi Norman,

What version of Garmin chartplotter do you have? Ours is a 741xs. VHF is Standard Horizon MATRIX AIS/GPS GX2200. Have the two connected via NMEA 0183 because the GX2200 only supports 0183. That shows AIS targets mapped onto the chartplotter display. Wish I'd realized that before buying the Std Horizon, otherwise I'd have gone with Garmin for the VHF or another brand that supports NMEA 2000 networking. We're planning on selling our boat next year, so not spending any more money on upgrades.

[tribologist]

First is to make sure you have the NMEA0183 RX/TX and + and - properly so that the output from the Garmin Plotter goes to in on the ST3000 converter box. (Guilty myself on my NMEA0183 - Wifi converter..) I use to run my old raymarine from the ipad for a while.

Typically you have to go in the menu system and tell the chartplotter to output the APB sentence that contains the bearings, cross track error etc. My simrad does not do that default. It is only making NMEA2000 data available default. Then try to verify that the data is available to the autopilot. Page 54 in http://www.busse-yachtshop.de/pdf/rayST3000_wheel.pdf seem to lay out how to do that.

Without knowing what garmin model you have it's hard to know but Here are the ones that you can try to turn on.

Cross Track Error APA, APB, RMB, XTE, XTR
Bearing to Waypoint APB, BPI, BWR, BWC, BER, BEC, RMB
Distance to Waypoint WDR, WDC, BPI, BWR, BWC, BER,
BEC, RMB
Waypoint Number APB, APA, BPI, BWR, WDR, BWC,
WDC, RMB, BOD, WCV, BER, BEC
Speed Through Water VHW


I have a NMEA 0183 to wifi converter that allows me to see the output from the MFD (Simrad NSS EVO3 in my case). Once that works the autopilot need to be activated by pressing auto and then the + and - 10 deg buttons simultaneously. That's how my Raymarine sportpilot worked and I looked in the manual for the ST3000 and it seem to be the same.

[SalishAire]

My chartplotter is a GPSMAP 1042xsv . What confuses me are that the chartplotter has "extra" letters in front of the typical 0183 sentence nomenclature - I read quickly over this might better address the issue but so far I haven't got it clarified ( https://developer.garmin.com/downloads/ ... 684-00.pdf ) . Its also a 2008 publication which was back when Garmin was notoriously proprietary. Basically I think the ST3000 will work IF I can get a straightforward XTE and one of the Bearing to Waypoint sentences (BOD ?). This is the information in the GPSMAP manual - nothing I can find about sentence meanings https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp ... 10CD3.html . This shows the nomenclature I am seeing: https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=I ... TNKzWZ7689 . I assume that GPXTE is the same as XTE but what is the GP about????

[tribologist]

My chartplotter is a GPSMAP 1042xsv . What confuses me are that the chartplotter has "extra" letters in front of the typical 0183 sentence nomenclature -

Does not look to bad. Seems similar to my Simrad to Raythen SportPilot ordeal

The proprietary ones seems to be mostly used for transmitting GPS information

I think you just need to activate GPRMB and GPXTE but you can try the GPBWC The RMB is a cluster of information. that has most of the stuff but not XTE. (it has the info it needs to calculate XTE)

Page 168 has the instructions on how to set it up and the parameters are listed here

Page 189 in https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp ... _EN-US.pdf

NMEA 0183 Information
Transmit
Sentence Description
GPAPB APB: Heading or track controller (autopilot) sentence "B"
GPBOD BOD: Bearing (origin to destination)
GPBWC BWC: Bearing and distance to waypoint
GPGGA GGA: Global positioning system fix data
GPGLL GLL: Geographic position (latitude and longitude)
GPGSA GSA: GNSS DOP and active satellites
GPGSV GSV: GNSS satellites in view
GPRMB RMB: Recommended minimum navigation information
GPRMC RMC: Recommended minimum specific GNSS data
GPRTE RTE: Routes
GPVTG VTG: Course over ground and ground speed
GPWPL WPL: Waypoint location
GPXTE XTE: Cross track error
PGRME E: Estimated error
PGRMM M: Map datum
PGRMZ Z: Altitude
SDDBT DBT: Depth below transducer
SDDPT DPT: Depth
SDMTW MTW: Water temperature
SDVHW VHW: Water speed and heading

RMB - Recommended Minimum Navigation Information
To be sent by a navigation receiver when a destination waypoint is active.

''
14
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13| 15
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
$--RMB,A,x.x,a,c--c,c--c,llll.ll,a,yyyyy.yy,a,x.x,x.x,x.x,A,m,*hh<CR><LF>''
Field Number:

Status, A= Active, V = Void
Cross Track error - nautical miles
Direction to Steer, Left or Right
FROM Waypoint ID
TO Waypoint ID
Destination Waypoint Latitude
N or S
Destination Waypoint Longitude
E or W
Range to destination in nautical miles
Bearing to destination in degrees True
Destination closing velocity in knots
Arrival Status, A = Arrival Circle Entered
Status A - Data Valid, V - Data Invalid, FAA mode indicator (NMEA 2.3 and later)

[SalishAire]

Driftless: Thanks!!

Here is where I am at after working on it yesterday: I now have the VHF and Garmin "talking" to each other I believe (To confirm communication: Each one has an internal GPS or can accept GPS data via 0183 - I switched each one to the external GPS setting and they appeared to be getting data). I think the radio problem was most likely caused by a partial connection on one of the lines (I used single use waterproof clip connectors initially (commonly seen on telephone company wiring).

At this point I think my SeaTalk to 0183 translator off Ebay did not work (a YouTube about the device says it should have LED's light up when it is connected - mine never did.) My theory with used stuff is make sure it is cheap enough that its not a huge financial hit if you get a lemon - I think my lemon came up so I've ordered another one to try.

I will attach my working diagram - one curious thing from the Garmin instructions is that on the color guide wires #4 and #5 are reversed???? I am using the colors listed and ignoring the numbers. (I had hoped that Garmin would be consistent with its colors across various platforms to use as a double check but its like every development team just does their own thing.)

[tribologist]

Not sure how its done. Serial interfaces are often a mess. I though it was jus a single ended vs bslanced interface. I think its RS485 or similar

[SalishAire]

Solved: Radio causing chartplotter reboot issue solved (I think). I've run into similar issues before when you have more than one GPS on the same system providing similar but not quite equal data. The answer was to set the radio to not output GPS data (this fixed the reboot issue) and set the chartplotter to not output GPS data (which caused confusion for the radio which is designed to automatically use an outside GPS over its internal GPS).

At this point I am waiting for the arrival (or rather for me to get back to my mailbox as we are currently heading to join BC Albineers in Nanaimo BC) of a replacement Seatalk to NMEA converter as I think the first unit was defective (lost $ but that part of the game).

[DesertAlbin736]

A case to be made for KISS! Our boat came with an older Raymarine tiller pilot and a vintage SeaTalk GPS inherited from the DPO. The tiller pilot servo hooked to the rudder quadrant via a short removable stub tiller & controlled by a wired remote from the helm. Neither worked very well so have since been removed.

Here's what the setup looked then circa 2012, two years before we took ownership (photo from DPO's CL ad). Electronics consisted of a simple Garmin fishfinder, an old el cheapo Uniden VHF that not only didn't have DSC or it's own GPS but didn't even get weather radio channels. The SeaTalk GPS (under the square white cover to the left of the wheel) just gave digital Lat/Long LCD numerical readout & couldn't get a decent signal half the time anyway. A loose aux GPS mushroom antenna sat on a weighted post & was practically useless. That was back when "La Dolce Vita" was still named "Nowell's Ark", a pun on the PO's last name.

Albin helm.jpg

Latest iteration of electronics suite. Tiller Pilot/Auto Helm gone, simple fish finder depth display gone, SeaTalk GPS gone, El Cheapo Uniden VHF gone. In their place Garmin GPSMap 741xs combo chartplotter/depth sounder, circa 2016, Standard Horizon MATRIX/AIS/GPS GX2200 VHS linked to chartplotter via NMEA 0183. Never had any problems with VHF talking to chartplotter & displaying AIS targets on the chart display. Where the ancient SeaTalk GPS screen lived there's now digital voltmeter display for min/max, accumulated amp hours for start & house batts, and solar panel min/max volts, amps outputs & amp hours since last reset. Also added for emergency & dinghy use was a Standard Horizon HX870 floating handheld GPS/VHS with DSC distress button, new circa 2016.

20180107_173049.jpg

After the 2016 lost dinghy/distress towing incident got serious about upgrading electronics & got an FCC MMSI number.

20160711_091513-1-1.jpg

Norman, when I checked the BC Albineer web page the next and last BC Albineer rendezvous of the season is supposed to be on September 8-10 in Genoa Bay. Is there another meet up in Nanaimo that's not listed on their web page schedule? If so give my regards to those great folks and let them know that FYI La Dolce Vita will be back next summer, hopefully able to make one of the 2024 rendezvous and will afterwards be laid up for sale on consignment at Capital City Yachts brokerage in Olympia, WA after returning from one last fifth & final Salish Sea cruise.

[tribologist]

Solved: Radio causing chartplotter reboot issue solved (I think). I've run into similar issues before when you have more than one GPS on the same system providing similar but not quite equal data. The answer was to set the radio to not output GPS data (this fixed the reboot issue) and set the chartplotter to not output GPS data (which caused confusion for the radio which is designed to automatically use an outside GPS over its internal GPS).

At this point I am waiting for the arrival (or rather for me to get back to my mailbox as we are currently heading to join BC Albineers in Nanaimo BC) of a replacement Seatalk to NMEA converter as I think the first unit was defective (lost $ but that part of the game).

Did you have two sources onto the same NMEA 0183 bus? I can see how sending the same sentence from two sources will make a mess. Hopefully it works when you get the new converter. I was messing with our AP the last weekend. I'm getting it to track within 10 ft or better even in turns in NAV mode but on heading hold it is not very good but does well on No Drift... I would love to know the actual control laws.

[tribologist]

Here is a screenshot showing outbound and homebound. Huge difference after retuning. Did 120 miles with maybe 20 min hand steering. Got to love the AP!