A25 Auxiliary heater

[SalishAire]

So Hyacinth is in the midst of a major refit. She now has a Wallas diesel cooktop/heater installed (and operational) with plans to run a duct down at least one side with a computer fan to push heat to the aft cabin. She also has a Red Dot brand engine water to air heater that was never installed that we plan to install before long under the step into the fore-cabin. (Similar heaters can be obtained locally or online from Sure Marine in Seattle (they have their own brand they assemble on request)). (Hey WillieC - if you are in Lacey stop by and take a look!)

[WillieC]

Resurrecting this rotting corpse. I have decided to rip out and replace the Eberspreschensiedeutscherspacherschiebetur and install one of the Chinese knockoffs.

I am, for now anyway, abandoning the engine loop heater and the Dickenson/SIG drip blast furnace skin burner ideas all because of this guy's videos, thanks to Lopezmike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvwmU_C ... t6H1ZFSFks

I'll try to summarize, basically these heaters consist of one moving part, the fan(s), and a controller that can be cheaply replaced. Most of the issues that people have are the result of incorrect installations. Not helping is that some come with no installation instructions or worse, chinglish transliterations. WATCH THE AUSSIE VIDEOS. Make lots of popcorn and take notes. He spreads his knowledge around somewhat haphazardly, so make some more popcorn. Haphazard is way too strong. His videos are excellent, it's just that he often goes back and adds a tidbit of info he may have missed earlier. Watch all of them, all the way through.

I got das Eber.... working, sort of. Mainly as a result of having too much time on my hands. But talk about old school. It has one fuel dosing setting. ON. It has one fan speed. ON. It has one indicator that the fuel pump is working, Well, two. The knock, knock and the BLACK SMOKE. The new improved prolly patent violating (another whole matter I won't even mention, except here) is based on the later version Espar so maybe these improvements are on the newer German models, D4. ( I must add, wistfully, that I loved the expanding lucite rod that served as the fan on switch. The heat builds up in the chamber, expands the glass rod which triggers the microswitch. Sheer genius. Maybe I can incorporate the same principle into a boat size mechanism that manually turns the dial of the new furnace on in the morning.)

The Cheap Chinese heaters (we gotta come up with a better name, really) modulate the fuel dosing rate paired with the variable fan speed to adjust the heat output. What a concept!!

Sure, the controller is a FM (a common electrical trade designation for something you have no clue about) black box that gets thrown away if you can figure out how to read error codes. And it is cheap, too.

I will henceforth devote future posts to the whole process of replacing the old heater with the new. If I remember to take pictures as I go. Step one, find the best deal.

[WillieC]

84 USD 5kw. On its way. Unbelievable.

[DesertAlbin736]

It's late January. I was over at the boat yesterday to replace the heat rotted guts of the Beckson passive vent that's directly over the forward cabin hanging closet. My digital inside cabin thermometer read 77 degrees. It also displays the previous 24 hour overnight low, which was 42.

The intense summer heat just fries & disintegrates the plastic after a few years. At the same time I replaced the plastic outside shells of all three (two on the front cabin, one on the aft cabin top) with stainless steel ones. I had previously replaced the guts of the other two & they were still OK.

For the rare instances we need heat we use our portable Mr. Heater to take the morning chill off the cabin. Other than that trying to cool things off in the summer means a better investment would be an A/C system.

mrheater.jpg

[Dieselram94]

84 USD 5kw. On its way. Unbelievable.

$84?????!!!!!!!
Do you have a link?

[WillieC]

UPS dropped it in the wheelbarrow on the way to the shop for bench test today.

IMG_4963.JPG

Take your time checking it all out. The wiring harness is self explanatory so (note to self...) don't screw it up. I can't stress enough checking out the Aussie videos by John McK. He has a whole segment devoted to boat installation that differs substantially from the original Albin work. Specifically the through hulls and a loop plus a condensate drain. Not sure how to squeeze a "correct" installation into the shoe box Albin provided. I'll be leaving the intake inside the boat and plugging its through hull.

Bleeding the lines, filter and getting fuel to the pump is crucial. Do better than I did. 90% of the wear damage on the pump I am sure comes from first run. I dribbled a bit of kerosene in both ends, but that didn't do much. Then the filter half drained itself in my fumbling installing it. At .2ml/stroke, it took three attempts to get fuel to the burner. Not good. Then it lit off!

IMG_4964.JPG

I ran it through a few cycles and am very pleased with the operation of this unit. I'll run it a few more days in the shop and maybe get it warm enough to paint the top.

[WillieC]

Second day test.

The fuel prime held, filter is full, no puddle of fuel on the floor. Bench test battery is shot but will work for my purposes as long as I hook up the charger at 2A.

I connected the power leads and hit the ON button on the controller (need to hold it down for a couple seconds) and ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA!

The initial system check is reassuring. The fan starts at a decent clip then cuts back. Then the igniter plug comes on and there is a delay before the pulse pump kicks on. (Remember the fuel delay button I installed on the original relay controlled eberspacher? Brilliant minds… ah never mind.)

After 20 seconds or so the glow plug is red hot, the dosing pumps shoots 7 quick shots of fuel. Pauses a while then starts dosing at the higher end of its range. By this time you can here the fuel light off, reminiscent of all the space launches we got to watch on the mondo TV on wheels that was hauled into our 5th grade classroom. A quick check of the exhaust pipe routed into my wood stove is a thing of beauty. The original Eber….had a nasty habit at this stage of the cycle of having this long, drawn out conversation with itself whether it was going to light or not. All the while in this limbo stage spewing noxious black clouds out the side of the boat. Right neighborly. Not so with the new, improved $84 model. Smoke free at start up, reliable ignition, and modulated heat output.

I ran it through a couple cycles, through its full temperature/pulse range then hit the OFF button and let it go through its shutdown sequence. The unit must go through its programmed shutdown sequence to clear fuel in the chamber and cool down the heat exchanger so as not to burn up the plastic housing and/or fry the black box bolted to the HX. Details. All performed admirably.

I need to get the hardtop done so I can install this heater.

[WillieC]

Received simple knob controller today. Doesn’t work, flashing #7 error code. Break line fault or disconnection fault. Check connections for looseness. Tried it a couple times. The original controller that came with the unit still works. I may have a defective one..

5D6059DB-C87B-4902-9F4E-526076C3A5B6.jpeg

Or, John McK mentions that there are some units that won’t allow controller swapping. The fix was to replace the black box inside of the particular unit and avoid the kit that comes with the odd wired part. I thought I did just that, now I have to find where he talks about it. (Episode 12). I think I will try it again tomorrow then send it back for replacement. Maybe this is why I only paid $84.

[Dieselram94]

I think it’s a matter of swapping pin positions in the connector. I recall him talking about the one odd controller that can’t be swapped, and it’s definitely not the one you have. I also recall somewhere seeing the pin swap thing.
Mine should be here tomorrow!

[Tree]

84 USD 5kw. On its way. Unbelievable.

Just done the same myself - went for 8kw though and only £94. Most of the parts like the exhaust need slinging out as they're not fit for purpose

Have a look at this Youtube video for some guidance on what needs replacing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM-NDKb ... lingCadoha

Thankfully for myself, the company he bought the parts from are just 20 minutes away so i am just waiting for the exhaust skin fitting to come in so i can order everything in one go.

[WillieC]

Tree,

I thought it might be the pin swap thing but I will start by replacing the knob that doesn't work. I'm in no great hurry and if I get too much more bs from the supplier about returning it, I'll just buy another black box and knob. Then I'll have a real test lab set up.

I did not mention a pinched wire I found on the new knob. It only nicked the insulation when they snapped the cover closed. No big unless it pulled it loose from the guts, still not likely.

The controller that came with the unit is, according to John McK, a "good" one. But I am not having much luck with all its bells and whistles as described in the nearly impossible to understand Owners Manual that comes with the heater. So in the matrix...which part is faulty? What I would like to have is reliably interchangeable parts for the (inevitable?) failure. John Mck's point is that if the controller fails, there is no way to shut down the unit since it maintains its status of operation. AND pulling the plug, doing a hard shut down, will most likely burn out the internal black box unless you quickly pull the cover and unscrew the controller from the heat exchanger to let heat dissipate. The way the unit is shoehorned into the A25 location will make that difficult to accomplish.

All this fuss over a heater that we have done just fine without for 8 years is rather comical. But I really like the idea of extending my season the older I get. And, so far, I'm in under a hunnert bux. Tree, you are correct in that most (all) of the parts that come loose in the box are unsuitable for boat installation. I also don't live next door to a great supplier, so I have to spend a bit more money (and time) on fittings. None of which I care to rip into until I get the top back on. I am using the heater in the shop, we are hovering just below 50F/10C ambient, and I need a bit of boost for a chance at getting the paint to lay down.

I like the idea of picking the right place to stick the heater from scratch as you are trying to do. I am stuck on the A25 since a hole in the side of the boat (actually 2, much too close together) and ductwork already is in place. The original location, with the Ancient Espar installed right next to a single wall exhaust skin fitting, with no condensate trap and possibly inadequate room for water ingress prevention loop may be challenging. Or, I could put it right back the way it was, which I think others have done with satisfactory results. I will say, even though we haven't used the original Espar after all my restoration efforts, I have never liked the exhaust (and intake) holes in the side of the boat. We have seen plenty of rough water and while at those times I have been too preoccupied to stick my head over the side of the boat to see how close the water gets to those holes, I don't like those prospects. It needs a loop.

Tree, I agree the video you posted is pretty good. I quickly reviewed it and could not find his installation of a condensate loop at the low point of the exhaust pipe. (I may have missed it, I have watched way too many of these vids.)

Cheers!

[Tree]

One key thing in the video is lagging. Lag the hell out of the exhaust and lag the ducting as much as you can as this will improve efficiency at the vents. I think I’ve found the perfect location for mine under the helm seat attached to the stringer on the hull - just means fabricating a bracket strong enough to hold it all in place. That way I can vent the exhaust over the side next to or possibly above the collector boxes as there is no way of venting over the stern from that location. I think I’ve enough room under the floor in the heads to run the ducting so both vents can come out under the table in the main cabin. It may mean I need to close the ducting down slightly but I also may reduce it to 50mm diameter to ensure I can get it through the gaps.

[WillieC]

It is important to not restrict the airflow as that is what keeps the plastic housing and black box from overheating. Sounds like you've got it sorted.

[LopezMike]

A few notes:

I installed my unit right in place of the original. No problems with condensation as the combustion exhaust comes out of the bottom and only a 90 degree bend and then out through the hull.

Probably only applicable to my boat but I have a fender management system that leaves them pretty much in place. Just pulls all of them on one side up horizontally when under way. The middle one on the starboard side hangs in front of the heater exhaust if not either all the way up or all the way down. The heater exhaust WILL melt and burst that midships fender if not attended to. DON'T ASK! Embarrassing.

As I mentioned once before, both with the original heater and with the new one, the heaters are drawing cold air from the aft bilge with all of the possible sources of stench one might imagine. I added a 90 degree bend at the intake (rear) end of the new heater such that it draws air from just under the helm seat. Unless the helmsperson has eaten all the wrong foods for dinner, life is much more pleasant.

Selah.

[WillieC]

Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your points. Going to all the trouble of a condensing loop at the ell and a big loop to the exhaust is interesting to say the least.

Did you replace the thru-hull with a legit double wall unit? The original Espar unit used a larger exhaust tube. And what did you use for clamps? I prefer something more robust than hose clamps.

To update...I purchased a simple knob with the on/off buttons and a knob for more heat. It did not work, so I requested a swap. They simply refunded the thirteen bucks. I told them it was flashing a 7 code, indicating some kind of power failure issue. Since they could not or would not replace the one I ordered I went ahead and ordered a new internal control board and another knob from another vendor. Now I'm into it for a bit over a hunnert. I have not complained to the heater vendor because the unit works with the remote controller it was supplied with. It just doesn't work with the (aftermarket aftermarket) knobs. Also, the controller supplied with the heater also does not do all the instruction booklet says it will do. It is basically an on/off device with control over the pulse rate only. This may be why it cost $84. John McK says if you swap out the inner black box, it will likely work with several different types of controllers. Here's hoping it will also make the original controller work as advertised. Not holding my breath.