A25 Window replacement question

[nebulatech]

Hi All! Question for those in the know...

Is there a benefit to using any sealant (sikaflex, other) when installing the window gasket material? I didn't see any when I took it out. I read to use dish soap to aid in putting the glass in, so I guess no sealant can go in that channel, but what about between gasket and fiberglass?

I now have the special L-shaped tool for hooking the gasket. I appreciate the prior advice for that!

Thanks in advance for your insights!

[dkirsop]

Use of sealant will just make a mess. If the fit and the gasket are properly matched the seal will be water tight. I have just gone through hell getting this right on my boat and was going to post about it but held off. I'll assemble some details for further posting but here it is in a nutshell.

The cabin wall thickness is an issue. The literature suggests it is 3/16" but this is only a minimum specification. I found only two spots (very small) where this was the case. Mostly it was 1/4" and in some of the tight curves close to the corner measured 5/16". The correct gasket requires a 1/4" panel fit.

Also, the original window, which fell apart on extraction, measured 3/16" thick not 1/4". I expect Albin use 5mm plexi. Anyhow, I continued with the 1/4" acrylic which I had already purchased. A friend gave me the seal left over from working on his boat. It was the same as what has been listed on previous postings from this site. It was a long hard struggle to get this seal and window combo in and shortly after the leaks came hard and fast. This seal was simply too narrow to accommodate the thicker panel sections. I took it all out again and one of the windows broke in the process.

I consulted with a commercial glazing specialist who has experience with Albins - he confirmed my suspicions and ordered in the correct rubber. He told me the web between the cabin wall and the "glass" was slightly thicker than that used by Albin and I would have to "fine tune" the acrylic window to fit. This consisted of making an accurate template and carefully filing the acrylic window by hand to achieve the final fit. When the fit is right everything goes together relatively easy and seals well. I have no leaks.

I'll post more once I get the number of the seal and locking strip.

[Burton]

So is the 1/4” the best fit or do you advise 3/16”? Our fore and aft windows are terribly cracked and I dread their replacement. I got the recommended rubber seal.... putting this off while I do bottom paint and wiring.

[jerridsc]

I replaced both the acrylic panels and all the rubber gaskets on both acrylic and glass. It was the most difficult job I’ve done so far on my restoration. The learning curve was very steep. The new, recommended rubber strip I used, caused all the panels to be 3/16 to 1/4 inch too big to fit in the openings. With careful jig saw work I was able to reduce the size of the acrylic panels appropriately. For the glass windows, I had to reduce the opening size by grinding the fiberglass openings down 3/16 to 1/4 inch. Then things went pretty smoothly. Using any kind of caulk or sealant will drive you crazy with the mess.

[nebulatech]

Geez, now I'm dreading it too!

So no sealant! I have some gasket that came with the boat, but now it seems like I will need to measure it to make sure it's the right stuff.

dkirsop I would greatly appreciate part numbers and a source! Does anyone know about how many feet one needs? I have 35 feet, which seems to be enough for the 3 front cabin windows. (If it is the right size)

[jerridsc]

Meant to say “ increased” the window size for the glass panels, not decreased.

[dkirsop]

PART ONE

The seal is manufactured by Cooper Standard and the part number is 75000473. The minimum order length is 50 feet. I ordered it through the glazing shop as they were very helpful in their advice. Here are links to the web pages for the seal and locking strip.

https://meccomindustrial.com/product/as-1488/
https://meccomindustrial.com/product-ca ... herstrips/

Here is a picture of the shipping label from the supplier.

Shipping Label.jpeg

I highly recommend the Lisle sealing strip installation tool. You can get the tool number from the Lisle web site and order the tool from Amazon. Order the cranked handle model as it really helps in the tight corners.

Lisle Tool 1.jpeg

Something I found very helpful was to install the rubber strip the day before installing the window. Cut the strip a few inches longer than required and hold it in place with masking tape and props. Let the two ends of the sealing strip overlap loosely for a couple of inches. The seal takes on a set and is easier to work with when installing the window. I made some wooden props to help hold the seal in position until it was time to install the window. Make sure it is fully bedded in the corners - this takes work but it will go in.

Props.jpeg

Note the rounded ends of the props. This allowed me to place them in at an angle as the window dimensions varied.

There is some controversy as to whether the sealing strip joint goes at the top or bottom of the opening. The original installation had the joint at the bottom but I noticed most utube videos had it at the top. I put it at the top and it worked but was harder to work with when it came to inserting the window. If I was to do it again I'd go with the bottom. You are fighting gravity with the joint at the top. The locking strip joint is placed opposite to the side with the sealing strip joint.

Here comes another hard part. The sealing strip needs to be cut about 3/4 to 1 inch long at the butt joint. Then the two ends are placed in line with each other and the sealing strip worked outwards from the joint until it lies flat and in compression at the joint. This would work best with two people but it was not an option for me. The wooden props helped a lot.

I used a 1.5" paint brush to apply a strong solution of dish soap and water. I had a tarp spread out below to collect the drips. I started by sliding one end of the window into the channel and tapping the other end with a rubber mallet to set the window into place. I left about 2/3 of the wood props in place to hold the rubber strip in position while doing this. I then removed each prop as I levered the window into the seal groove using a set of bicycle tire levers. This took several attempts and would have been better with a second set of hands inside the boat.

I found it really helped to install 2" long sections of locking strip as the window installation progressed. This kept the seal and the window in place as work progressed. Mostly I did this in intervals of 10" to 12". I removed them as I installed the actual locking strip later.

Use lots of dish soap when installing the locking strip. Like the sealing strip, the locking strip will be cut slightly longer and the ends butted together in compression. Only this time the strip is cut 3/4" to 1/2" long at the butt joint and worked into final position. Remember that the lock strip joint is opposite to the seal strip joint. Note my props have rounded ends, I used one to apply pressure and "roll" the lock strip into final position. Keep working and rolling it until it all lies flat.

There were one or two locations where the edge of the lock strip did not go under the lip of the seal. In these location I lifted the lip and rolled it over the edge of the seal using the corner of a flat bladed screw driver. Use a 1/4 bladed screw driver with no sharp edges to do this and make sure it is well lubricated.

I first thought the back window would be easier to install than the front window. This was not the case as the window curve at the back is more pronounced and the radii are smaller. This results in the window being stiffer and more fussy.

[dkirsop]

PART TWO

This deals with getting the annular space between the window edge and the cabin edge properly matched to the web of the rubber seal. THIS IS IMPORTANT. If the space is too small you can damage the seal during installation and if it is too large the window wont seal. In either scenario leaks will result.

I used a flexible but firm piece of cardboard to make patterns for the windows. Stationary stores sell this as poster board. I taped a strip of poster board over each window opening on the outside of the cabin making sure it lay flat to the edge of the opening. From inside the cabin I then used a scribe set to the width of the web to trace the outline for the window. Actually, the scribe was set a hair over the width of the web dimension (like half the thickness of a sharp pencil line). Make sure to mark the inside face and the correct orientation of the window on your template.

Using the template I transferred the line onto the acrylic and carefully cut just outside the line using my bandsaw. I then used masking tape and the template to mark the correct orientation on the window. Finally, I used a rasp to hand file the window to final shape which is when the cut line just disappears from the window. If this sounds like a lot of work it is. Do it when you have the time to proceed without deadline pressure.

If you have the option, it is easier to work with paper backed acrylic rather than plastic backed acrylic. I ended up removing the plastic protective shield from my acrylic and using a fine Sharpie to mark out the cut line taking care to avoid unnecessary surface scratches during the tooling stages of work.

For the glass windows the specialist told me they have to file the fibreglass openings larger. Again, all by hand going slowly, slowly slowly to avoid disaster.

[WillieC]

Yikes! I think I'll overhaul the MD17C again. It sounds easier.

[nebulatech]

WillieC, as you know, I already permanently "overhauled" my MD17C, so that's not an option.

Dkirsop, thank you for the parts and the very thorough guide! I may give the front window a go today. I have fresh paint inside and out. Do you think I can just tab the gasket in place with painter's tape rather than using the spacers? I have plenty of wood if not.

[dkirsop]

I tried the tape approach first. As the window insertion proceeds you need to remove the tape in stages. Each time I pulled the tape to remove it the seal pulled free of the cabin edge.

You can use tape for the initial stage of leaving the seal in place for the first 24 hours. I did use it for that. I strongly recommend you do this step first as it makes dealing with the seal during window insertion much easier. If the seal drops out while working in the window it goes back up much easier when this is done.

Richard, once Covid passes, I would be willing to come down and lend you my experience on this job.

[dkirsop]

So is the 1/4” the best fit or do you advise 3/16”? Our fore and aft windows are terribly cracked and I dread their replacement. I got the recommended rubber seal.... putting this off while I do bottom paint and wiring.

Either will work. The 3/16" will bend easier and be slightly less difficult to install. The 1/4" will lend greater support to the strength of the cabin roof. I do recommend using tinted glass for the new windows as I think it will help block the UV which ultimately causes the window to craze. I believe both thicknesses use the same seal strip but check with the manufacturer first.

[nebulatech]

I taped the gasket in place. I was heading inside to get the detergent and found that my fridge was leaking, and my freezer was thawing. So in the end it looks like the gasket will get at least 24 hours to take a set. I'll cut some spacers too.

Thanks again!

[SIMONET]

Hello,
I'm the new owner of the Albin 25 Fisherman motor cruiser TUÇA # 1734, built in1974 and equipped with a recent Lombardini motor (type 2004, 50 CV).
I live in France, Normandy, near Cherbourg in the little town of Barfleur.
Could anyone give me the name of a company and address for joints in Europe. References welcomed for a quote.
I saw the post about replacement in the united states but I hope I'll find a nearer place to buy the elements.
Thanks for your precious help.

Apart from that, after years of lack of maintenance, due to illness of the previous owner, the boat is afloat after bottom paint with two new batteries, new pumps and a thorough clean.
The upcoming job will focus on the revision of the electric system after almost fifty years of add-ons.

Best regards,

Gérard

[Burton]

After trying to patch up the cracks in our fore and aft windows to no avail we finally did the job this past spring. As for advice, what everybody else said. It’s one of those things that we dreaded terribly, but once we got into it, you get the feel for what needs to happen. Two people were pretty necessary for the front window, I did the back by myself. I think we cut the rubber molding with maybe a half inch overlap, and then pressed that in as any more than that would not fit. Your mileage may vary.