Boat Buying process

[hagak]

So as I stated in my intro I am in the shopping stages of buying my first boat. What should I expect the buying process to look like? I of course will have a survey done, I know of a reputable one locally that I will use if I am lucky to find a boat nearby.

I assume one negotiates the sale price prior to having a survey done or is it the other way around? What if the survey finds issues that I am willing to fix but want to have adjusted in the price? Is there a complex closing like with a house or is it more like buying a used car?

Beyond, survey and actually paying for the boat (not financing so don't have that to deal with). What other items pre and post sale should I expect?
My current list I have is.
1. Survey
2. Transporting the boat (if not local).
3. Insurance
4. Registering
5. Have mooring or slip confirmed
6. If close to end of season - winter storage and winterization plan
7. Outfit boat with needed gear not included in the sale (safety gear, lines, fenders, etc.)

Any other advice? Anything I should keep an eye out with the Albin28TE when viewing one?

Thanks

[Norseman]

First you inspect the boat, with a broker, or without. Either way, spend at least a couple of hours on the boat sniffing around, viewing maintenance logs, receipts for parts, repair, maintenance, etc.
Get a good (or bad) feeling about the boat.
If you still like it, discuss price and make an offer: Offer is subject to Survey and Sea-Trial.
At this point you have signed a contract and put 10% earnest money down.
You can still back out after the survey and sea trial and get your money back, OR negotiate a lower price if the surveyor found a laundry list of items needing attention, repair, etc.
Or the boat could be perfect and you pay the agreed price with a smile.
All expenses for the survey, sea trial, haulout, etc., You pay.
(Usually the owner runs the boat for the survey and sea trial, but if he is not available, he may supply a friend, or a Captain to drive the boat, he may pay for the Captain, he should, or you may be asked to pay. Occasionally the broker may pay, just to make the sale)
If you are new to boats, bring an experienced buddy for the initial inspection, he can tell if you are going to waste time and money on a survey, or not.
(I surveyed and sea trialed 2 Albin 28TEs before I found a really good one)
If a broker is involved, he will handle the paperwork, if not the seller should supply the contract and you get the boat registered (or documented) in your name.

[Norseman]

Continued:
You may want to get insurance quotes before you buy the boat so you know exactly what the premium will be.
The insurance companies wants a copy of the survey and they want any safety items repaired ASAP or within 30 days, or whatever their policy is.

As for transporting the boat, either you run it on it’s keel, or you hire a crew, or
You have it trailered. From Coast to shining Coast it can be expensive..

What else…?

[hagak]

Thanks Norseman for the detailed response. That is about what i was expecting, did not know about the earnest money but is inline with expectations.

Have an initial inspection of a boat with a broker tomorrow. I have been around boats for a good bit and am fairly mechanically inclined so I should be okay to get a enough feeling if it is worth the money for a survey.

[Norseman]

Thanks Norseman for the detailed response. That is about what i was expecting, did not know about the earnest money but is inline with expectations.

Have an initial inspection of a boat with a broker tomorrow. I have been around boats for a good bit and am fairly mechanically inclined so I should be okay to get a enough feeling if it is worth the money for a survey.

Ok, cool.
Make sure you take tons of pictures, and if any questions, publish the pics right here and ask questions, OR send privately to guys or girls for a “hidden” response or opinion.
These are cored hulls so you need a surveyor with a good moisture meter and and other tools. (Infrared something)
My survey, the last one anyways, was dry as a bone.
The previous one showed delaminates in the underwater hull.

[hagak]

Yep my biggest concerns of course is the hull then the engine.

FYI- I read your upgrade thread, very detailed and very appreciated. Gives a nice insight on the albin.

[Norseman]

Yep my biggest concerns of course is the hull then the engine.

FYI- I read your upgrade thread, very detailed and very appreciated. Gives a nice insight on the albin.

Thx.
Yes, the Albin 28TE rings most of my bells.
(Great design: Big rubber rub rail all around. Protected prop and rudder.
Good hardware, good overall quality. Standard bow thruster, etc.)

The negatives are difficult access to basic service and maintenance.
Learning to live with it however and still love my boat.
(Like you if you married Ms. USA, then found out she has bad gas, well you still love her right.,? )

[RobS]

First boat ... so no experience. That will be an obstacle with some insurance carriers.

[DesertAlbin736]

To all the above (good responses), I would add a few things above & beyond, or at least ahead of the buying process. To wit:


What are your needs & expectations for boating? How do you expect to spend your time on said boat? Cruising? Fishing? Day trips? Overnighting? You say you've been around boats for some time so I assume you've narrowed those requirements down to an Albin 28TE. Know your budget realistically, not just purchase price but overall operating costs beside fuel & moorage and including surprise repairs. Be dispassionate when looking at prospective boats. Do your research. What are the known trouble areas on the age and type you're looking at? That way when looking over a prospect you can look out for & weed out the the "bargains" that could potentially turn into money pits before engaging a paid surveyor. Even then surprises can happen.

For example, we have sailing friends who bought this 1978 Southern Cross 31 cutter rigged double ended sloop up in Wisconsin. Looked like a real bargain for $15K & was just what they were looking for. Got it surveyed & the whole 9 yards. The cabin top had a little soft spot under the deck stepped mast. Didn't seem like a big deal. It has a Yanmar YM20 engine that seemed to run good & got a thumbs up from the surveyor. After purchase they decided to sail it across the Great Lakes all the way to the east coast, hoping to get to the Jersey Shore & lay it up for the winter there before deciding what to do & where to go next season. They made it 600 miles from the Apostle Islands to Bay City, MI on Lake Huron before they had to give up due to some health problems & laid the boat up there & went back to their home in Flagstaff, AZ. "Sailing" ended up being a lot of motoring due to conditions, and along the way the engine started leaking significant amounts of lube oil from somewhere in the back of the engine. Not sure exactly where because the double ended hull makes it very difficult to access the back on the engine. So now the engine needs to be pulled to find & fix the problem. And the soft deck? Shop estimate to have that repaired at the marina where it is now is around $5,000. Plus what ever the labor cost is to also pull the engine & fix the leak. It's a tiller steered boat & the tiller pilot autohelm quit working. They had trouble with the radar, and also on again/off again trouble with the air conditioner in the boat. It was hot and humid much of the time on the crossing, so having A/C was more than just a luxury. So you just never know. Even the best due diligence can miss problems that crop up later, so it's good to be prepared to take unforeseen contingencies into account. Main thing is being mechanically inclined & willing to put in some sweat equity helps.

Good luck with your search!

seadragon.jpg

[hagak]

So I have examined our boating needs. Something stable and comfortable on the Maine Coast, not interested in fishing, but interested in overnight trips but probably no more then 3-4 nights at a time. Wife needs a head with a door, ie no porta-potty under the sleeping berth. Looking for something fuel efficient and can maneuver through rough seas without beating the crap out of me.

So actually looked at a 99' Albin 28 this evening. The boat looks in pretty decent shape however a few red flags popped up for me. A few not sure if they are really an issue or just the nature of an older fiberglass boat.

The boat had a number of stress cracks in the decking (did not see any in the hull above water, boat was at mooring at the time). Most of the cracks were around fasteners or hinges on the decking. I also noticed the deck in the cockpit aft of the engine box just in front of the hatch to the rudder the deck had a good bit of spring on it as I walked across it. Is this a normal behavior of this boat? Few other hairline cracks were noted on the interior sides of the pilothouse pillars.

The other red flag was the engine hour meter, the factory one had stopped functioning. The owner rigged a another one behind the console that started counting at the time it was installed. Total hours was right around 1200 hours but who really knows.

Last red flag was the boat is currently on its 3rd owner, that is a lot of different opinions on how to maintain a vessel and modify it.

Thinking I am going to keep looking, but would like opionions on wether the deck stress cracks should be a concern or not. Particularly the spring in the section of the deck aft of the engine box.

[Norseman]

. Thinking I am going to keep looking, but would like opionions on wether the deck stress cracks should be a concern or not. Particularly the spring in the section of the deck aft of the engine box.

Pictures, can’t comment or advise without pictures..

[hagak]

A few of the cracks. Note the last one is the area that is springy

[hagak]

Anyone have comments on the above conditions? Pretty much have screw in the cockpit deck and hinge had cracking around it as shown. Also looking again it seems odd to me there are screws through the decking without a plate or washer (unless the washer has fallen into the crack).

The spring and give of that one panel behind the engine box seemed not normal to me but never being onboard a 28 I am not sure.

[Norseman]

Looks like damage around the screw heads.
As for stress cracks on the gelcoat: Got quite a few cracks on my boat also, especially on the hardtop: Underneath the ceiling and on the outside edges.
Planning to have a gelcoat guy come over and fix it.

Whether the cracks on your boat is serious or just minor cosmetic I am not sure, but the surveyor will probably address the issue.
Perhaps typical for a 20+ year old boat.

[Norseman]

. also noticed the deck in the cockpit aft of the engine box just in front of the hatch to the rudder the deck had a good bit of spring on it as I walked across it. Is this a normal behavior of this boat?

That would be the inspection plate for the fuel tank.
I have not noticed it to be soft when walked on, 220 lbs Albinista.