Albin 27 re-power options

[REO]

I am about to order a Beta 50 or 60 for my 1984 27 sport boat. The old engine is out and I need to make some important decisions. The Betamarine rep is recommending the Beta 50 or one of the last 60 hp units without the turbocharger. These 60 hp engines will not be available after the two in inventory are sold . I prefer avoiding the new turbocharged model. I would appreciate advice from anyone with experience with this kind of re-power.

How much difference will the added horsepower make? Will the 50 hp be quieter?
What is the difference between the mechanical and hydraulic transmission. The mechanical transmission is $1500 less. Which is more reliable? What size and pitch prop should I order with each engine? I am very interested to know what prop current owners are using with these engines.

[Ambler27FC]

REO,

I posted much of the data I have on my Beta 50 install into a 86FC on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11885&hilit=Repower&start=15

I had discounted the Beta 60 because I didn’t see much advantage in the power/torque curves and did not want a turbo charger. I did not know they came w/o turbo chargers, so you may want to check my thinking. I replaced an 80HP Perkins and performance is very similar - maybe 1 less knot at WOT. I never drive at WOT except for engine tests. Hit hull speed around 2000-2100 RPM, which is my normal cruise setting.

Could be tough to find someone who has had both engines and could compare noise levels. With a turbo I think you get a higher frequency sound.

I got the standard transmission. I’ve read opinions on reliability, but no real data.

I had my prop modified from an 18x14 to 18x12 to hit rated rpm at WOT. I thing someone else was using an 18x13 and came in just below rated rpm. A 16” or 17” could also be interesting, and maybe a little quieter?

They are good engines - really liked the maintenance features and support from Beta.

[Ambler27FC]

A possible argument for the 60hp non-turbo is that for your planned cruise speed you might be able to use a more aggressive prop, run at a lower RPM, reduce the noise slightly, and perhaps save some fuel. You’d would want to compare the power and fuel curves between the 50 hp and the 60 hp.

I planned to use about 2/3 throttle at cruise with the understanding that diesels like to be ‘worked’.

[motthediesel]

There is really no reason to be concerned about turbochargers from a reliability standpoint. Just about every diesel vehicle on the road today has some kind of forced induction on it, usually a turbocharger. Even in the agricultural and construction areas, most of the engines now have turbos.

Having said that, there is also no reason to equip a boat with more power than it needs. This is especially true of boats with displacement/semi displacement hulls like ours. We have the 61 hp Lehman/Peugeot in our boat, and it will do 8-1/2 to 9 knots at WOT, but we NEVER run it like that. It runs comfortably and economically at 7 knots, so that’s how we steam it.

I have no doubt that a modern 50 hp Beta/Kubota would serve you very well. We have an older Kubota tractor, and I love it. That engine is bulletproof, and also easy on parts/service when needed - they are everywhere! That’s certainly not the case with a older “orphan” make like our Peugeot.

I suppose a little more power could help if you were towing another vessel, but how often would that happen? Also, extra power could overcome high headwinds, but we’re on the water for fun, and bashing into the weather is something we all avoid. Opposing currents are a matter again of hull speed, so even huge additional power will add small advantage there.

There is one other factor in favor of the turbo however. In my experience, they make the exhaust much quieter. I used to have a Toyota Landcruiser diesel, and I could not believe how much nicer it got when I added a turbocharger to it — like night and day.

Either way, you won’t go wrong with a Beta, I’ll look forward to hearing about how well it performs.

[REO]

Thanks for the good info. I will be beginning the engine room clean up soon. I hope I can get things almost as clean as SkipD. I have a lot of wires and water lines to contend with. My boat has a generator, bow thruster and electric windless, hot water shower and central air conditioning, so there are a lot of hoses and wires. I'll post some pictures when it is finished.
After reading all the posts I am inclined to order the Beta 50. Hull speed is all we want. The prop recommendations seem to indicate that a 18x12 will give me hull speed and achieve maximum rpm's. I am going to order a new prop, probably from Michigan Wheel, so I will give them the specs. and see if their calculations match your real world experience. I am still undecided about the transmission. I can save $1,500 if I use the mechanical transmission. Reliability and noise are my most important criteria and I have not found any indication that the hydraulic transmission is quieter or more reliable???
It looks like I will also need the "calorifier kit", strange name for hose connections for a water heater. Since I plan to mount the water heater above the engine I understand that I will also need the remote antifreeze expansion tank. This option seems like a good idea since it will be easier to check antifreeze level.
A dripless shaft seal and Soundowner sound insulation are also on my wish list. I am hopeful that I have now identified all the needed accessories. I didn't set a budget for this project, but I'm sure I am over budget.

[WillieC]

"I didn't set a budget for this project, but I'm sure I am over budget."

Yet another happy boat owner! Damn the torpedoes. Carry on.

[REO]

Ambler 27
I am close to finalizing my order. Betamarine is recommending the 50 hp. Sounds like you are happy with that engine. So, that part of the decision is done. The transmission is the next issue. I am inclined to get the standard mechanical transmission. The hydraulic upgrade is recommended, but I don't see a benefit that justifies the added $1,500 cost. Betamarine says that the hydraulic transmission shifts smoother, is more durable and will handle more hp. and comes in a few different ratios. My feeling is this:
I have had 3 boats with mechanical transmissions and 60 hp engines. All were about 20 years old when I sold them. None of them had transmission issues .
It doesn't matter if the transmission can handle a more powerful engine.
The 2 :1 ratio of the standard transmission works. Is there a benefit to some other ratio?
I guess the smooth shifting issue may be valid. I can't remember shifting in and out of gear to be unsmooth, but maybe I would be impressed if I compared the feel of the two transmissions shifters.
Since both transmissons do not shift gears like a car, I don't expect that there is much difference in smooth operation. The clutches on the hydraulic would seem to be smoother, but I would think that the water action on the propeller would dampen any small clutch imperfections.
Does anyone with the standard mechanical transmission wish they have upgraded? Does anyone with the hydraulic transmission feel that the $1,500 was worth the price?

[Ambler27FC]

REO,

I wish I could offer good input on the transmission, but (hopefully!) won’t be able to say much about reliability for another 9 years. When I looked at the gearbox it was rated well above the engine - exactly as you would expect. It would be odd for them to sell a transmission that couldn’t handle the motor.

I used the 2:1 gearbox after looking at the shaft output speed of my previous engine. I know nothing about propeller design, so that was my only reference point.

I always stop in neutral for a few seconds when switching gears, so I am not sure I understand the smooth transition. The small ‘clunk’ you hear when switching gears I kind of like - it gives you verification. The hydraulic might prevent damage if you made a hasty mistake while docking, but I have no experience with that type of transmission.

Let me know if you need pictures or anything. I did get the exhaust riser, and had to modified to turn the output 90 degrees, but there seem to be different engine mountings in these boats so that might not be an issue.

[motthediesel]

RE: The transmission

The only hydraulic inboard transmission I've had any experience with is the Velvet Drive in my wife's ski boat. It's fine, and shifts nicely, but I don't notice much difference from the mechanical Hirth box in the Albin. The old mechanical boxes in our Chris-Crafts were another matter. They were clunky, and they always dragged in neutral, but that's apple & oranges for this discussion.

[REO]

I got some feedback from Betamarine. They seem to agree that the standard mechanical transmission will work well for me. They confirmed that the 2:1 gear ratio is correct for the 18" prop. I'm still going over a few details, but I expect to place the order soon.
I agree that the soft "clunk" from a mechanical transmission is reassuring.
I am leaning toward the high rise exhaust elbow, partially because it seems to align best with my current exhaust hose and partially because I think a high placement could mean less risk of backflow.
I saw a mention of a lifting point on the engine. Where is it? Did the engine lift level from this point? I used several straps strategically placed to avoid damage when I lifted the Lehman out. Kind of hog tied to the motor mounts. Couldn't get it set to come out level, but it didn't matter once it was out.
Did you have to get custom engine mounts, or did the standard mounts work? Betamarine will cut the electrical plug and play cord to my specification. Did you have yours cut?
My hand always shakes a bit when I have to write a check this big, but we are getting excited about the new engine.

[Ambler27FC]

I attached the best picture I have of the engine being lowered - chain still attached. There are two plates with holes on the top of the engine that are lifting points. I didn't physically install the engine myself - I found a good deal that saved me renting lifting equipment. Had to fine-tune things afterword, but still a good value for me.

The standard engine mounts worked on my install. I had to add some spacer blocks to tune the alignment, but otherwise a drop-in. SkipD also installed one of these engines and that install looked very different. There is some variability in these boats.

I measured the cable path, and the standard cable (3m?) worked fine for me.

While I order spares from the US website, the Beta UK website (https://betamarine.co.uk/) seems to have all of the manuals. Their install and operations manual is about the best I've seen.

Very best of luck. For me it was a stressful start, but after the break-in it was trouble free. Spent a month working the Chesapeake from north to south. A great year to be in the middle of nowhere.

[Ambler27FC]

IMG_0440.JPG

Second try at photo attach.

[motthediesel]

For leveling the engine during install, one of these is $40 well spent. If you were closer, I'd lend you mine

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-cap ... 60659.html

[SkipD]

Chiming in late on this discussion. I've had the Beta 50 w/mechanical 2:1 and 18x13 prop running for 2 seasons now and am very happy overall with its performance. It replaced a Nissan LD28. The original stringer cores were mush so I replaced them as part of the re-power. I also put in a CV joint - thrust mount which changed the shaft-trans alignment (lowering the engine and moving it forward a bit). To be safe I put in the high rise exhaust (it matched Beta install specs) and a shallow sump (could have probably gotten away with the standard sump). Soft mounts were used because of the CV joint/thrust mount.
For the install I used a engine hoist strap with hand chain block hoist and found a good balance point so I could hover the engine over the stringers and slide it around for fine-tuning final placements. I'm known for measuring 5 times and cutting twice so the ease of lifting/lowering was much appreciatted.
Would be glad to share any more information from my experience.
Best of luck, it's a great engine and company to work with.

[REO]

Great advice. I am picking up the load leveler tomorrow. It looks like it will make the connection and leveling process much easier.
I am surprised at the differences that I can see from the engine compartment photo. My stringers are wider. maybe a bit shorter. Wonder way they didn't make them all the same? The bulkhead behind my engine compartment is part of the generator room, so that difference is not surprising. Did you find any rot in the main bulkhead forward of the engine? Ours had a huge hole for the toilet hose. The edges were not sealed, and I had to do some drilling and filling. Sound reducing material looks good.
I'm going to be a bit reluctant to shorten the plug and play cord if yours fit without much extra. I do have some room behind the holding tank to hide extra wire.
SkipD
Glad to hear from you. I noticed that the lag screws holding my motor mounts had some heavy goop on the first few threads at the top. On one the goop goes down about three threads. All of them snug up well, but I am concerned that I have some rot on the top of the stringers. I'm going to cut an inspection hole next week and look at the worst one. How did you fix the rot in yours?