Yikes -- Cummins power!

[motthediesel]

'88 Albin 27 SC for sale in Maine -- 210 hp B6T Cummins!

I'd be interested to see some performance numbers on that one.

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[Mainer]

This boat is docked directly across from my A27 Sport in our marina in South Portland.

When I first saw the boat a couple of years ago I went over and talked to the owner because this configuration is very rare.

He told me he cruises around 12 knots. We didn't discuss fuel usage, but we all know this hull is semi displacement, and anything over 8 knots (which is my cruising speed with the Isuzu engine) is more about plowing water than planing. I didn't ask owner about fuel consumption. All that said, my opinion would be that his asking price is quite reasonable. Also like the "camper" canvas.

[Bob Noodat]

I feel sure the extra 120hp will get you back to the marina bulk diesel tank at least 1/2 a knot faster.

Having said that I will admit that the price seems very reasonable indeed for what you will get.

[motthediesel]

As much as I love the Cummins 5.9 six (I've had two of them in trucks) I agree that much power in an A27 probably doesn't make much sense. I wonder why they didn't go for the 4 cylinder 4BT, that would have saved room/weight and still had more than enough grunt for the job.

Did you see the picture of that big 4 blade prop? Wow!

[Dieselram94]

One thing is for sure the 6bt Cummins is arguably the most legendary and most reliable diesel ever built!

[Bob Noodat]

One thing is for sure the 6bt Cummins is arguably the most legendary and most reliable diesel ever built!

Expression of religious beliefs is generally frowned upon in this kind of recreational forum

[motthediesel]

One thing is for sure the 6bt Cummins is arguably the most legendary and most reliable diesel ever built!

Expression of religious beliefs is generally frowned upon in this kind of recreational forum

Good one Bob!

I've spent a good bit of time in the "Church of Cummins" myself, but I do try to keep a more ecumenical outlook.

[RobS]

.... I wonder why they didn't go for the 4 cylinder 4BT, that would have saved room/weight and still had more than enough grunt for the job.

A good "fit" it would have been but surely it would have rattled the boat into pieces....

[motthediesel]

A good "fit" it would have been but surely it would have rattled the boat into pieces....

Yeah, unfortunately the I-4 configuration is just not an inherently smooth machine. And in the larger displacement engines, it only gets worse. The 4D61 is proof of that, but it's just over two liters. The Toyota 3B that I used to have in my old LandCruiser was three and a half liters, I loved that motor, but it shook like a wet dog. The venerable 4bt is bigger still at almost 4 liters -- so, as Bill Haley said "Shake, Rattle & Roll"

[DesertAlbin736]

RE 5.9 L Cummins truck engine (slightly OT, but now that it's been mentioned): The 5.9 L Cummins as installed in 2006 & earlier Dodge Ram 2500 trucks is 325 HP & 625 ft lbs torque. 2006, which is what my truck is, is the last pre DPF model year where you don't need to add that Blue Def fluid. My late stepfather was a diesel mechanic going way back, and while he was a GM fan on everything else he swore by Cummins for big rig truck engines. That's why I went with a Ram truck rather than Ford or Chevy/GMC, specifically for the Cummins. Been driving this now 15 year old truck for the past 10 years for all of my "DAing". It had 78K miles on the odo when I bought in in February of 2011 & recently rolled over 150K. A good deal although not all of that 72K I've driven is trailering, either the Catalina 25 sailboat we had before 2013 or La Dolce since 2014 and our RV trailer. It's still going strong & the only major repair other than normal maintenance was replacing front ball joints.

[Bob Noodat]

That's why I went with a Ram truck rather than Ford or Chevy/GMC, specifically for the Cummins.

To put that the other way around, the Cummins is the ONLY reason to buy a Dodge Ram. Their reliability is the lowest of full-size pickups. As for great engines, Ford discarded one of the best high-speed diesels of all time in their 7.3 PowerStroke, but GM in their Duramax have a great engine: mine has almost 250,000  MILES  on it now and still uses no oil, has full power, and is as economical as when I bought it in 2003.

The oft-debated "great diesel engine" question is so complex as to be not really worth attempting to answer. The three main factors determining an engine's longevity are 1. weight, 2. rpm and 3. horsepower per displacement.  No engines can beat the giant old slow-revving marine diesels that might weigh several tons and generate 100 or 200 bhp. 100,000 hours was normal for them. They ran cool, with their vast quantities of lubricating oil, and ran continuously for most of their lives so didn't sit and rust, or heat and cool in repeated cycles. But I guess we are not including them in this discussion.

Nor are we speaking of the D-type Lister, without doubt the largest production run of any diesel, but mostly as a stationary engine for generators and pumps. Still being manufactured  and used in their thousands almost 100 years later.

On to the smaller, higher speed commercial truck engines, which came into their own in the years after WW2. But engines like the Detroit Diesel 2 cycle 6-71, like the Perkins 6-354 and many others were still very heavy, relatively low revving , and producing one horsepower for every 1, 2 or 3 cubic inches of displacement. Also they tended to be continuous-duty units without much stand-down time. There were many great engines, and they are still being produced, although horsepower has crept steadily up over the decades. But we are not talking about them either!

What we are discussing is essentially the modern consumer-quality product, built to a price and not needing to have the low maintenance and continuous-duty characteristics of any of the previously mentioned types. Light weight, acceleration and economy are the requirements to sell these engines to the public for their cars, light trucks and recreational boats. This leads to a high-revving and lightweight unit. Not having a mass of metal makes them cheaper, more economical, higher revving, and greatly reduces their longevity. There are longer-lived and shorter-lived ones, but in general the more horsepower you extract, the shorter their lives will be. Are there great engines among them? Yes, but only as great examples of a cheaper, inferior type of disposable engine.

Worst of all things to do with a diesel, or gas, engine is to put it in a recreational boat. Short cycling, rapid heating and cooling, long periods sitting in a damp and salty environment, patchy maintenance. Poor things! And the one way of making that Worst into Even Worster Still is to overpower your boat with an unnecessarily large engine, often crammed into a space that was none too big for the originally installed unit, making maintenance more difficult and overheating a likely concern. The over-large unit is then run at low revs and carbon build-up inevitably follows.

But the Cummins is a good engine, in the right place, and put in its correct context.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cdlFmyY3R0w

Screenshot_20210225-140905.jpg

[Dieselram94]

As for the 6bt Cummins, mine is in a 1994 2500 Dodge Ram. Originally a 175 hp engine in stock form, it is now at about 300 hp and extremely reliable and 21-23 mpg without much idling. It currently has over 430,000 original miles lol. No blow by, still starts easily in below zero temps and performs perfectly as the rest of the truck for being a stick shift 5 speed truck. Only thing Dodge is frame, body and wiring. The Ford 7.3 power stroke was a great engine as well, but not even close in efficiency. The 6.0 and 6.4 power strokes are amongst the worst diesels ever built and the pre duramax 6.2 and 6.5 gm diesels were very low power and not the best for reliability either. So far the new 6.7 power stroke seems to be a good engine but the one I drive only has 10,000 miles on it so too early to know...

[motthediesel]

Wonderful video Bob! Of course I couldn't understand a word he was saying, but I sure followed everything he was doing. I love those old diesel thumpers, but of course they would be out of place in our modern lightweight boats. I like to watch videos of traditionally powered English canal boats too, those Russel Newburys, Gardners, and Listers were like living, kinetic sculptures -- fantastic!

That was also a nice example of single screw boat handling -- backing and filling 101. It's like I always tell people about maneuvering -- forget the rudder in reverse -- the stern is only going one way no matter where the wheel is. I was surprised to see a conventional gearbox on that boat though. I would have expected a variable blade prop -- but perhaps that's more of a Scandinavian thing?

[Bob Noodat]

Wonderful video Bob! Of course I couldn't understand a word he was saying, but I sure followed everything he was doing. I love those old diesel thumpers, but of course they would be out of place in our modern lightweight boats. I like to watch videos of traditionally powered English canal boats too, those Russel Newburys, Gardners, and Listers were like living, kinetic sculptures -- fantastic!

That was also a nice example of single screw boat handling -- backing and filling 101. It's like I always tell people about maneuvering -- forget the rudder in reverse -- the stern is only going one way no matter where the wheel is. I was surprised to see a conventional gearbox on that boat though. I would have expected a variable blade prop -- but perhaps that's more of a Scandinavian thing?

I am glad you enjoyed it Tom. It is well worth checking out his other videos, beautifully edited. The love these eccentric people have for their boats is palpable and quite moving.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCOuRn84b3iySMZlnrT3Dq6A

Some of them have English titles and are subtitled. Loflied op de langzaamloper seems to mean Hymn of the slow runner, if my short research in Google Translate was accurately returned. The sound of those slow-running engines is delightful. One owner points out that the 3 cylinders go to a waltz rhythm, and it's true! Heere Heeresma seems to have a very dry sense of humour that he injects into his videos. And I don't understand much Dutch either, just the bits which are like German and English:
"Skipper van Noordennen, wot hest du fer modur?" is easy to understand!

Yes, the gearbox surprised me. Some of the oldest engines, especially the hot bulb ones, actually stop and reverse direction of rotation for reverse gear! You see a camshaft moving to alter the poppet valve order. Amazing to someone as ignorant of them as I am. Ingenious fellows these Dutch.

[DesertAlbin736]

On Dodge Ram reliability that discussion can go on and on. But I can only say from personal experience if Ram trucks have a reputation for poor reliability I must have lucked out & got a rare gem. This vehicle has by far been the most reliable vehicle, car, truck, or SUV I've owned in 50 years of driving. The only other vehicle I've owned close to this long was an '81 4 cylinder Datsun 4X4 pickup from 1985 to 1994 and it had its share of issues. The two worst cars I've owned was a '66 VW "Baja" chopped bug that I drove from 1979 to 1982 and a '66 Volvo 122S I had from about 1973 to '75. So far beyond said ball joint replacement on the Dodge everything still works well, even the little stuff like switches and power accessories. I did have to replace a corroded positive crossover cable between batteries recently, but again, the truck is 15 years old. Body rust is not an issue out here in the desert, and I keep my truck garaged out of the elements, so it doesn't have UV damage to paint & interior.