Docking an A25

[Swedishboater]

I live in the California Delta and I love Scandinavian boats. I live on the water (lucky me) with my own dock. I recently sold a Tollycraft 26 partially because I could not get into my slip! It has much more windage, of course, than an A25, but I do not want to make the same mistake 2x. For the Tolly (wide boat) I had only 1' clearance on each side....so I will have more room, but often just getting the bow into the slip was a challenge. We have a lot of wind here and a 4' tide. Usually the tide is not more than 5 knots.

Please let me know if this boat is hard to get into a slip. If so, what would it cost, more or less, to have a bow thruster installed? I want simple, or would not be looking at an A25, so wonder if adding a bow thruster would kind of be against Albin "rules."

Any other advice anyone can give me (please!!!). What to look for.... I am a handy older single woman who has owned mostly sailboats. I can do "decor" and simple repairs but leave engines and electrical to the experts. Thanks!!

[dkirsop]

The Tolly 26 is a planing boat and consequently has a small rudder. The rudder on an Albin 25 is much larger than that of the Tolly. Having said that there are still some handling skills required when maneuvering an Albin 25 in tight quarters. Depending on the direction of prop rotation it will prop walk either port or starboard at low speeds. In my case the prop walk is to starboard when in reverse so a starboard hand dock would be ideal as shifting to reverse kicks the stern in. Of course my current berth is a port hand dock. The good news is that the boat is much lighter than a Tolly and if you keep a boat hook handy you can usually pole the boat into position.

Different boaters have different levels of comfort when it comes to getting the feel of how a boat handles so there is no easy answer here except to say that it will handle much better than a Tolly at slow speeds.

[Norseman]

. wonder if adding a bow thruster would kind of be against Albin "rules."

Ha, most Albins have bow thrusters, not agains any Albin rule:)
I am guessing it would cost $6-7k to add a bow thruster to your boat:
It makes a night/day difference maneuvering in tight quarters and worth every penny.
If not in your budget, then hire a captain to fine-tune your skills and learn how to utilize prop walk and other techniques to safely dock under almost all conditions.
(Did you say there is a 5 knot tidal current across your slip...? )

[NickScheuer]

I'd have some thick fender material lining both sides of your slip.

[hetek]

After 45 years of boating, I've come to realize that it is much easier to dock bow in. Why?

Simply put, most all boat behave poorly in reverse. It's not their designed direction of travel. I'd rather have it behave poorly towards open water when departing than towards my neighbor's expensive yacht or some other immovable object when docking.

Docking stern-in has got to be the parallel parking equivalent of boating. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes it's a hot mess.

That's just me. And yes, bow thrusters are awesome, but they cannot always make up for more than light to moderate winds and currents. I had one on my A27 FC and installed one on a 27 Seasport Pilot. Both boats really needed them at my marina. Matter of fact, when I told the marina owner I had bought an Albin 27, the first words out of his mouth were "Does it have a bow thruster?". Now I know why.

And... Post #1 Swedishboater? Welcome!

[nebulatech]

Welcome Swedishboater!

I found myself wondering if your dock could be reconfigured, but I realize I'm making assumptions on what your docking situation looks like. Rather than guess, could you upload a picture? (on this forum, its easiest with your phone) Seeing the slip with some background for context (clearance, surrounding hazards) would probably help some of our more experienced members understand your situation and offer better advice. Some of our members have cruised extensively and experienced a wide variety of docking environments.

I bought my A25 without working propulsion and am in the process of a refit, so I can't speak to docking it into a slip, but I can certainly appreciate the challenge. Where I live, we have 6+ knot tidal currents, and a 6' tide. I've had trouble even with 20' center consoles with an outboard motor at my local boat ramp which sits crosswise to the current. Below is a thread regarding installing bow thrusters on an A25 or A27. It looks like installing a bow thruster on the A25 involves reworking the water tank. If you chose to install a bow thruster, I'm confident you could sell the original water tank to one of us!
http://www.albinowners.net/aog/viewtopi ... 28&t=11404

The beam on your Tolly was 10' according to the specs, so would that mean you have a 12' wide slip? With 8" fenders on either side, docking sounds near impossible! With an 8.5' maximum beam, the A25 would have much more room to put the bow in. It also weighs probably half what the Tolly does (about 5,000lbs, loaded for cruising, real world figures courtesy of DesertAlbin versus the Tolly's spec weight of 9,000lbs assumed "empty"). With the dramatically reduced windage you mentioned, this boat should be much easier to dock than the Tolly, which I'm sure you've already derived. I'm sorry I could not be of more help.

[DCatSea]

I don't know if 25s and 27s share the same bloody-mindedness when asked to reverse into a dock, but I'd guess they do. We've owned our 27 for five years, and until recently were docked on the end of an internal T port side to, with an approach from stbd; the water was also only about 7 feet thick at highest tide. This was a great slip, but a bit of an issue when wind and tide conspired against me. As practice became almost perfect I was able to come alongside astern with relative ease in most conditions, and solo. That said I was still able to FU a few times. This is apparently par for the non-bow-thrusted Albin single screw. I quickly learned that slow and persistent were my two best friends.

We've recently moved to a new home, on a deeper middle row slip. The approach is from port and I dock port side to again. On the first shot all, much to my surprise and relief, went swimmingly. This miracle continues, and I have only had to make 2 attempts on one occasion. Most dockings have been in decent weather, with a couple of cross-wind events (5-10 knot stated). I am still slow and persistent, and still go out for training runs in.

There is a certain amount of satisfaction in getting it right most times. I may never get to the "Tilghman Island Waterman" stage of reversing in at high speed, and I'm sure my slip neighbors are relieved that I haven't tried yet, BUT (Bwaaaaa Ha Ha!!!!!) WHO KNOWS!!

Part of the winter work before relocating, was to have the propeller removed, reconditioned/balanced. I believe this has made a big difference to maneuverability in tight quarters. I have the original 15/11RH.

Would anybody have an opinion on tight quarters evolutions being less fraught in deeper water?

[DesertAlbin736]

Funny you should ask. At the moment some friends of ours are up in Wisconsin having just purchased a Southern Cross 31 cutter, which is a full keel sailboat, which out of the water looks like this sistership. As an aside, I hope our friends are happy with their boat. It'll be very seaworthy, but likely slow under sail & not point into the wind very well sailing close hauled. It does have a staysail, so that'll help some.

southerncross1.jpg

As you can see, the basic keel design of this Southern Cross 31 is similar to the Albin 25, except deeper. It's not so obvious from this photo, but the Southern Cross is a double ended "canoe" stern. And it's a bigger, heavier boat with less horsepower, in this case 13,600 lb nominal displacement powered by a 16 HP Yanmar 2GM20 with conventional 3 blade prop. Our friends are experienced sailors, their other boat being an O'Day 25 shoal keel-centerboard with an aftermarket inboard diesel with SailDrive setup with two bladed folding prop. In fact their +/-4,000 lb displacement O'Day is powered by the same type 16 HP Yanmar 2GM20, so they are now dealing with three times the displacement with the same available horsepower. If you're not familiar with Sail Drive it's essentially an outdrive protruding from under the hull & is fixed & not steerable & looks like this:

saildrive-1.jpg

They're dealing with a bit of a learning curve getting used to a full keel hull, especially when backing up. There are tricks to the trade & a bow thruster would make things easier but is not necessary. As dkirsop says, the Albin 25 as full displacement trawler type has a relatively larger more effective rudder than a comparable size planing cruiser. Plus the full keel helps it track straighter. There's nothing new about that design, the concept is as old as the hills.

There are several good YouTube tutorials out there, just do a search on "backing full keel boats" and "spring line docking". This is one. There are others. In fact this deals with what looks like a Universal 36 or maybe a Grand Banks trawler. An Albin 25 should be even more nimble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWs4PNQRZMI

This is another good one. AOG doesn't allow posting more than two links in any one reply. The main takeaway from this former commercial tug skipper is when backing you don't really "steer" in reverse with the rudder much, but rather use breif short, sharp "rudder kicks" in forward to aim the stern in the direction you want to go and then continue backing, alternating with rudder kicks in forward as needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_EkTnx0uwg

One thing to note is that the majority of Albin 25's still retain their OEM Volvo engines, which have left hand props, so "prop walk" in reverse will pull the stern to starboard. Most other engines used to re-power boats such as Beta, Yanmar, and other have right hand props (like ours), so prop walk pulls the stern to port. In our experience the prop walk effect on our boat is not that pronounced and the boat almost backs straight, but without rudder kicks simply refuses to back to starboard. Some say backing in to a slip is better because the stern is less likely to weather vane like the bow does. But that's a matter of personal preference & could be determined by practice.

Hopes that helps.

[DesertAlbin736]

Another good little model demonstration of spring line use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUMocc1_4w

[dkirsop]

Most A25s do not come with a thruster and in my opinion do not need them. Tidal range at my marina is 14' and because it only goes up and down does not produce much current. A tidal induced current is not a problem for me but wind direction can be quite challenging. Once you get used to how your boat turns pointing it into the slip is not a problem. Your slip is quite wide relative to the beam of the boat. I have quite a tight turn to make in a narrow channel and while it was challenging the first time it became easier with each successive docking. Keep your speed low, stay calm and ease your self in. Enjoy your new boat.

[hetek]

I thought about the "tide current" comment and I think dkirsop hit the nail on the head. We actually have that in Peconic Bay. When the tide comes in and goes out, you can get currents of 5 knots in some areas.

It would be tough to dock if you had a dock there.

[DesertAlbin736]

Extra help from marina staff if available, spring lines, spring lines, spring lines.

[tribologist]

Extra help from marina staff if available, spring lines, spring lines, spring lines.

Did you put a mid ship cleat on yours?

[hetek]

I tipped the dock attendants a $20 each at Essex Island Marina once for making me look like a docking pro. Came in all wonky but they made me look like gold!
Money well spent, and much cheaper than fiberglass repair!

[DesertAlbin736]

Yes, I added midship cleats. Found a source for teak bar cleats that match OEM.