Original head toilet brand and rebuild kit

[nebulatech]

I have what seems to be the original marine toilet. I can't find any labeling or logo on the bowl. There is a sticker on the pump aperture, but the text is long since gone. The stem that leads from the bottom of the bowl to the pump has an Albin Marine sticker.

I want to rebuild this head unit. I have gasket material so in theory I could make new ones, but I would rather buy a kit if possible. I tried searching forum post titles, but I couldn't find any answers. Does anyone have any info, manual or rebuilt kit part number?

Thank you as always!

[DesertAlbin736]

Not sure what the original Albin OEM head toilets were or if there even was a standard. That said, I think ours might be the 1971 original and looks like this. If yours looks the same it's a Groco HF & parts are available from rebuilt kits to new flush pumps. (my late stepdad used to refer to clunker cars as "flush pumps" )

DSCN3635.JPG

Examples:

Groco HF parts & kits. Joker valves are routine replacement items every couple years.

https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?i ... 51|2234284

If yours looks like this it's a Jabsco. Those are the two most common marine head toilets.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=4210441

[nebulatech]

Thanks, that looks like it. Is this after your refit you did? I'm interested how you plumbed it, but I know you already did a write up on it.

[DesertAlbin736]

Thanks, that looks like it. Is this after your refit you did?

No, that's an old photo, the way it came from previous owners. Re-working & replacing the Y valve was so we'd have the option of locking it in the pumpout position in case we got stopped by Canadian CG while up in Ontario which wasn't possible with the old Y valve. Same if we ever go back to Catalina Island.

This is the way it looks now, but the earlier picture was better for showing what type of toilet that is. This year I replaced the complete flush pump with a new one. They do wear out after a number of years of heavy use & don't draw in flush water as well. Honestly if the head compartment were bigger & didn't have that raised part of the floor I'd consider a composting head like an "Air Head" or "Nature's Head". As it is with me being a big guy I can barely fit in to do my "#2 business" & be able to close the door.

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http://dainyrays.blogspot.com/2014/03/c ... e%20toilet!).

This blog entry talks about pros & cons of composting heads. Besides the up front costs (I've spent a fair amount on installing a larger holding tank and all the changes to the DC battery bank & associated wiring to accommodate it, so it's not that much different than the cost of converting to composting), the main issue was space. Let's face it folks, the amount of room in an Albin 25 head compartment isn't one of its best selling points. But you can only do so much designing a head in a 25 foot boat. Plus the need to run a vent chimney up through the cabin roof & needing to have a vent fan running 24/7, although my solar panel could handle that small amount of current draw.

[nebulatech]

After some consideration, I'm strongly considering the below layout because it enables me to empty the holding tank past the 3 mile limit, or at my local KOA, which recently informed me they dont have a pump out, but rather a "dump station," an appalling thought.

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[DesertAlbin736]

Ours is essentially like that except no vented loop, the platform the toilet sits on is right at the waterline, the holding tank sits under the driver seat floorboard on the opposite side of the wall near the same level as the toilet, tank has a separate 1" vent line that vents through the side of the hull near deck level, and of course the Y valve to select draining tank overboard or via pumpout. All effluent goes into the tank first. There's no way to bypass the tank & discharge the toilet directly to sea. So far we've never had any overflow issues with heeling. The previous owner came up with a MacGyver solution for draining the tank when the boat is on the trailer, with sections of 1" PVC that can fit into the drain through hull & dump into a dump station, sewer cleanout, or a bucket. We do have free pumpout stations at the marinas on the lake. Sometimes if we're at the lake for one night I'll park the boat in front of the house on the way back before taking it back to the storage lot & for small amounts will drain the tank into a 5 gallon bucket & flush down the toilet. But that's only for small amounts. When on road trips & camping in the boat we don't use the toilet, just make sure we stay in a campground or somewhere there's access to rest rooms, like this, in Panguitch, UT, one of our favorite stops (note snow capped mountains in the far left background. This was in June. Utah is such a beautiful state.. I also have adapters that can can convert marine shore power plugs to RV hookup plugs & if need be also from RV plug to regular household 15 amp plug, so we can keep batteries up for lights & other 120V outlets & fans as you can see in this photo. Could even use a microwave if we had one on the boat, which we don't.

20190611_160117.jpg

[nebulatech]

I had to zoom in, those snow capped mountains are majestic. I've never been to Utah, but grew up in the mountains of Appalachia. Much smaller mountains...

So with your setup, can you dump out at a dump station? There's a few bends in your pipe. If things get a little clogged can you add water to the holding tank and rely on the weight of the water to move things along?

[DesertAlbin736]

So with your setup, can you dump out at a dump station?

Theoretically we could but have never tried. I think the previous owners up in Idaho may have had to deal with the same situation as you where their local lake didn't have pumpouts. I imagine most small boats there have porta potties. Which in fact if your outings are mostly fairly short duration and don't have access to pump out stations a porta potty might make more sense for you.

The setup passed along by previous owners as I said consists of four short sections of 1" white PVC pipe. I don't have any pictures of it, but the rough sketch below shows basically what it's like. First section is 5" long & one end has 2 grooves cut into it for O rings that makes a tight seal when inserting into the through hull and has a 45* elbow glued to the other end. The next two sections are 14" long with a straight slip joint between them and fits into the 45* first elbow on one and and a second 45* elbow on the other. The 4th section is 11" long, one end inserted into the 2nd elbow and the other end is inserted into a straight slip joint which has a 3 ft long 2" diameter blue flat rubber fire hose clamped to it. All but the first elbow and the clamped hose are loose fit & not glued so the whole rig breaks down (after cleaning obviously) into sections & stows in a small gym type duffel bag.

Here's a rough sketch (not to scale). In practice I don't use the hose and one of the sections between the two elbows when draining into a bucket, just the first section, one of the 14" sections, the two 45 elbows and the 11" section. Since we have a swimming pool I have several large empty plastic buckets lying around that the 3" chlorine pool tabs came in. So when it's put all together with the hose it can reach up to 6 feet away from the through hull, farther if more sections of pipe & slip joints and/or a longer hose were added. By the time one goes to drain the tank most if not all the "tootsie rolls" have liquefied.

tankdump.jpg

With this tank it's never possible to completely drain it dry. There's always about an inch of liquid that won't drain whether with this method or by deck pumpout because the outlet is down low on the side, but not under the tank. Just wasn't feasible to place the drain fitting on the underside of the tank. So I always try to flush several gallons of fresh water through when draining it & add the deodorizer. Yes, this has a transparent plastic hand hold, so you can see how much is in the tank, plus the plastic tank is sem-translucent, enough to see where the level is at.

DSCN3420.JPG

The larger tank has made life easier on long cruises where pumpouts are scarce. Quite a difference in capacity between old & new. With the old tank it was barely good for a weekend.

DSCN3409 (1280x960).jpg

[WillieC]

"First section is 5" long & one end has 2 grooves cut into it for O rings that makes a tight seal when inserting into the through hull and has a 45* elbow glued to the other end."

Excellent information. The in-water dump through hull on the WillieC landed right on the end of one of the trailer bunks. I chopped off a couple inches and re-secured the super slick black plastic bunk covers, but now I need to move on to phase two.

Would that be table saw en-groove-ation or some more sophisticated operation? File? 3D printing? Replicator! That's the ticket! I'll talk to the Starfleet Commander.

[DesertAlbin736]

I don't know what method was used to cut the grooves into the end of the first pipe section. Maybe a lathe or pipe cutter? But whatever method was used the grooves look like they were cut by machine & perfectly true & square & about 1/16th wide by 1/16th deep with the first one placed 3/16th from the end of the pipe & the 2nd one 3/16ths in from that. All cuts on each pipe section are perfectly clean & square, so whoever did the work knew what they were doing.

[nebulatech]

OK, one last survey before I put the "head" to "bed."

Rebuild or Replace?

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/alb07-01-0 ... mpact.html

Here is an "Albin Pump Marine" marine head for essentially the same price as the Groco HF rebuild kit. From Groco's documentation, I likely have an earlier HC or HE model, but the "master" rebuild kit has the parts to make it compatible. The existing toilet has a dirty (has paint/varish on it) seat which needs replacing as well. Plus, rebuilding doesn't seem like a super fun job. (I've done it before.) Finally, the body of the Groco, where the drain plug is, is cracked and will need repair.

I'm strongly considering buying the above toilet (a knock of of a Jabsco, if I understand correctly) instead of rebuilding the Groco. I would keep the Groco in storage. My biggest trepidation is backflow from the holding tank, which is above the waterline. It's easy enough to close the thru hull, which I'm adding a siphon break to, so the boat won't sink, but if it leaks from the holding tank, oh boy!

I tested the Groco outside of the boat, and I believe the joker valve is toast because the bowl drains without pumping. If I add some hose to the outlet, the bowl will hold level to the height of water in the hose. Again, our holding tanks are above the toilet (maybe not DA's tank), so without rebuilding, this toilet will flow back into the bowl, and that thought has me second guessing buying a cheap toilet.

FWIW, I have sanded and poly'ed the head walls. I'm making a new vanity, raised base, etc. I should have that done in a week or so and will post pictures. Also worth noting, it came to my attention that the pump handle can be moved to the left side rather easily. I'm planning to do this regardless of toilet choice so I can make a cabinet around the hoses and still place the toilet on center. Never used a left-hand flush before...

Thank you again!

[patclem]

Folks, I know this is an aging thread, but I'm a new Albin 25 (#1366) owner. The boat has some kind of ancient Electrasan system that fries the waste before going overboard. I guess the Coast Guard says that's a no-no, and I plan to stay on their good side.

Anyhow, I had a holding tank on my sailboat and that is a stink mess to deal with. I noticed the brief mention of a composting head. The Airhead makes two different size potties, and both will fit sideways (back against the aft wall). Excluding the debate over whether composters are worth a dang, will it fit?

[DesertAlbin736]

See above what my 20 gallon holding tank setup looks like. You're the guy who bought the Tennessee boat talked about in in the other thread? Cool! Let the adventure begin!

[nebulatech]

I thought Lectrasan systems were A-OK? My cousin had two in his 42' Hatteras. Noisy, but nice not to have a holding tank. That was 15+ years ago. Are you sure it isn't grandfathered in somehow?

As for fitting the composting toilet, the raised platform outboard in the head can be removed or adjusted as needed. Mine has some thru hulls there, which might be in the way. (Mine are removed and awaiting replacement)

I will pull a measure on the aft wall tomorrow, and send a photo of my work in progress.

[patclem]

Nah, I understand the Electrasans are illegal. I’m pretty much hypnotized by the thought of a zero smell predictable maintenance reliable solution. One less thing to maintain and suck up battery.
My discharge thru hull is definitely a concern. I think I’m confident enough to order one and figure out how to fit it in there. I might have to use it with the door open, but that’s not the worst thing possible.
Yes, I’m the Tennessee buyer. I’m super happy to be part of her history, and I enjoy bite size projects.