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Beckson port leak - 28TE
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
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Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Less water in galley now.
Read this thread again and the 2 above links.
What is the 10 wood screws on each port biting into?
Fiberglass or the wood/plywood coring?
Tested all 60 screws on my tub today: 2 on each side is not biting, can be turned by hand. Pulled one out, no signs of wood fibers from coring, if anything, a bit of white caulk.
The lose ones were on the bottom forward side:
Have not taken anything apart yet: Caulked on the top and on the sides of each Port porthole as a temporary measure, could there also be water intrusion at the inner seam of the external face plate, where it meets the main body of the porthole?
If so, I have more caulking to do..
Read this thread again and the 2 above links.
What is the 10 wood screws on each port biting into?
Fiberglass or the wood/plywood coring?
Tested all 60 screws on my tub today: 2 on each side is not biting, can be turned by hand. Pulled one out, no signs of wood fibers from coring, if anything, a bit of white caulk.
The lose ones were on the bottom forward side:
Have not taken anything apart yet: Caulked on the top and on the sides of each Port porthole as a temporary measure, could there also be water intrusion at the inner seam of the external face plate, where it meets the main body of the porthole?
If so, I have more caulking to do..
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2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
- Norseman
- Gold Member
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- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
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Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
New caulk on top/sides of exterior trim ring:
Old failed caulk:
Can’t figure out from the exploded view if the inner rim needs caulking too, or just the other edge: This picture is not very helpful:
Old failed caulk:
Can’t figure out from the exploded view if the inner rim needs caulking too, or just the other edge: This picture is not very helpful:
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2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
- Pitou
- Gold Member
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- Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:34 pm
- Home Port: Gloucester, MA
- Location: Essex, MA
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
I'm sure that you've cleaned the surfaces well, but as a note to this thread:
When using silicone caulk you need to be sure that all wax and silicone has been removed from the fiberglass surface or water will find its way between the caulk and the glass. A quick compound or de-waxer and then an acetone wash will leave things clean.
I'm in the middle of a portlight repair on my 31 TE. One of the spot welds on one of the dogs(cams) on my stainless steels ports let go so I had to remove the unit to either weld or rivet it back on. I'm going with a sealing rivet, which I ordered from McMaster Carr todayto be. When I reinstall the port I'll be using bedding tape and not silicone caulk. I find the butyl tape to work better on hardware above the waterline. I bought a couple of rolls a few years back and now use it for everything and with much better success than caulk.
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape
When using silicone caulk you need to be sure that all wax and silicone has been removed from the fiberglass surface or water will find its way between the caulk and the glass. A quick compound or de-waxer and then an acetone wash will leave things clean.
I'm in the middle of a portlight repair on my 31 TE. One of the spot welds on one of the dogs(cams) on my stainless steels ports let go so I had to remove the unit to either weld or rivet it back on. I'm going with a sealing rivet, which I ordered from McMaster Carr todayto be. When I reinstall the port I'll be using bedding tape and not silicone caulk. I find the butyl tape to work better on hardware above the waterline. I bought a couple of rolls a few years back and now use it for everything and with much better success than caulk.
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape
kevinS
>><<>>;>
Former Boats:
- 2006 31TE / Hull# 221
Cummins QSC 8.3 / 500 hp
December '13 - April '23
- 2002 / 28TE / Hull# 614
Cummins 6BTA 370 hp / Alaskan Bulkhead
April '04 ~ May '13
>><<>>;>
Former Boats:
- 2006 31TE / Hull# 221
Cummins QSC 8.3 / 500 hp
December '13 - April '23
- 2002 / 28TE / Hull# 614
Cummins 6BTA 370 hp / Alaskan Bulkhead
April '04 ~ May '13
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
- Contact:
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Nah, I did not remove the outer rings to do a proper bedding: Just pushed caulk in the seam around rings, top and both sides to temporarily stop the leaks and buy time, wiped it down with alcohol firsts, maybe I use acetone on the other side: More marine silicone on the way from Amazon tomorrow.. When using silicone caulk you need to be sure that all wax and silicone has been removed from the fiberglass surface or water will find its way between the caulk and the glass. A quick compound or de-waxer and then an acetone wash will leave things clean.
2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
-
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1906
- Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:41 pm
- Home Port: Lake Champlain
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
The wood screws bite into the coring. Mine felt good on the top and sides when removing, but a lotta nothing on the bottom, which was borne out by disintegrated coring. I poured epoxy into the void, and when reinstalling, those bottom screws felt good. My husband agreed as he checked the snugness.
Yes, the inner rim needs caulk, too, but you can't really see the entire opening with the trim ring in place. As Rob mentioned up-thread, there should be 1/8" clearance between the port (Beckson calls this portion the spout) and the fiberglass. Beckson's instructions are here - https://beckson.com/installport.html - and they are great to talk to on the phone especially since the instructions are a little obtuse, at least to me. Turns out that is because the Albin installation is a little different than the instructions in that our screws do not go through to the outside of the boat. Proper sealing is the key to the whole thing.
Kevin, I briefly considered butyl having read the pbase site a number of times. But Beckson kept repeating silicone, silicone. So that's what I did.
Dag, I specifically asked about marine silicone or standard. They said Dow 795 is a great product, and that GE is fine. $5.99 per tube at Ace Hardware.
Yes, the inner rim needs caulk, too, but you can't really see the entire opening with the trim ring in place. As Rob mentioned up-thread, there should be 1/8" clearance between the port (Beckson calls this portion the spout) and the fiberglass. Beckson's instructions are here - https://beckson.com/installport.html - and they are great to talk to on the phone especially since the instructions are a little obtuse, at least to me. Turns out that is because the Albin installation is a little different than the instructions in that our screws do not go through to the outside of the boat. Proper sealing is the key to the whole thing.
Kevin, I briefly considered butyl having read the pbase site a number of times. But Beckson kept repeating silicone, silicone. So that's what I did.
Dag, I specifically asked about marine silicone or standard. They said Dow 795 is a great product, and that GE is fine. $5.99 per tube at Ace Hardware.
Nancy
2005 Albin 35CB
Yanmar 6LYA-STP 370
Valentine
Former boats
1995 Albin 28TE, Cummins 6BTA5.9 250, 2012-2022
1978 Trojan F32, 1998-2012
1983 Grady White 241 Weekender, 1988-1997
1980 Wellcraft 192 Classic, 1983-1987
2005 Albin 35CB
Yanmar 6LYA-STP 370
Valentine
Former boats
1995 Albin 28TE, Cummins 6BTA5.9 250, 2012-2022
1978 Trojan F32, 1998-2012
1983 Grady White 241 Weekender, 1988-1997
1980 Wellcraft 192 Classic, 1983-1987
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
- Contact:
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Ok, good to know, but some folks says marine silicone has less acid and more UV protection. Perhaps marketing hype... Dag, I specifically asked about marine silicone or standard. They said Dow 795 is a great product, and that GE is fine. $5.99 per tube at Ace Hardware.
2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
-
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1906
- Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:41 pm
- Home Port: Lake Champlain
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Yes, I suffered the same conflict.
Nancy
2005 Albin 35CB
Yanmar 6LYA-STP 370
Valentine
Former boats
1995 Albin 28TE, Cummins 6BTA5.9 250, 2012-2022
1978 Trojan F32, 1998-2012
1983 Grady White 241 Weekender, 1988-1997
1980 Wellcraft 192 Classic, 1983-1987
2005 Albin 35CB
Yanmar 6LYA-STP 370
Valentine
Former boats
1995 Albin 28TE, Cummins 6BTA5.9 250, 2012-2022
1978 Trojan F32, 1998-2012
1983 Grady White 241 Weekender, 1988-1997
1980 Wellcraft 192 Classic, 1983-1987
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
- Contact:
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Now getting ready for a seam-caulk on the Port side, inner perimeter of the outer ring. (Did the outer perimeter yesterday)
On the Starboard side we are getting ready to push caulk in the outer seam:
(Waiting for the Amazon Man to drop two tunes of Starbrite marine caulk on my doorstep, used West Marine UV Marine caulk before, but not too impressed, it stays just a tiny bit sticky, which attract dirt and the nice white caulk-line turns gray after a while. )
On the Starboard side we are getting ready to push caulk in the outer seam:
(Waiting for the Amazon Man to drop two tunes of Starbrite marine caulk on my doorstep, used West Marine UV Marine caulk before, but not too impressed, it stays just a tiny bit sticky, which attract dirt and the nice white caulk-line turns gray after a while. )
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2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
- RobS
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- Home Port: Center Moriches, NY
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Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Why not pop the trim rings and do it right....This is the joint you need to focus on.
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Rob S.
"TENACIOUS"
1974 Chris Craft 36' Commander Tournament
Cummins 6BTA 330B's
(Former Owner)
"TOY-RIFIC" 2000 28TE, 6LP, Hull 408
Luck is the residue of good design.
"TENACIOUS"
1974 Chris Craft 36' Commander Tournament
Cummins 6BTA 330B's
(Former Owner)
"TOY-RIFIC" 2000 28TE, 6LP, Hull 408
Luck is the residue of good design.
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
- Contact:
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Yeah, good idea but this is temporary measures: We got rain and thunderstorms every day, as I mentioned once or twice above: Buying time,, need to stop the leaks temporarily.
To just pop the trim ring and re-bed it correctly would be a waste of time as the whole porthole assembly needs to be pulled and bedded with core repairs done over 5-6 days with drying and epoxy Injections X 6 portholes: That there would take 2 weeks with dry weather If lucky.
Last edited by Norseman on Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
- Contact:
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Still working on the porthole project:
Purchased a moisture meter and checked the surrounding area around all 6 portholes from the inside: Below the portholes, we have 100% moisture on all 6.
Got the work cut out for me: Need to dismantle and pull all of them out:
Scrape out the rotten core, clean out old caulk, dry surrounding area out with acetone and a heat-gun over several (sunny) days then replace with fresh wood, wood pieces, Epoxy, whatever.
Hopefully the temporary caulking is working in the meantime: Pulled a few screws and have a fan going to start the drying process.
Question to those who have done the above: What are the odds that the
core is dry, and only the upholstery is wet and compromised?
(Wishful thinking )
Purchased a moisture meter and checked the surrounding area around all 6 portholes from the inside: Below the portholes, we have 100% moisture on all 6.
Got the work cut out for me: Need to dismantle and pull all of them out:
Scrape out the rotten core, clean out old caulk, dry surrounding area out with acetone and a heat-gun over several (sunny) days then replace with fresh wood, wood pieces, Epoxy, whatever.
Hopefully the temporary caulking is working in the meantime: Pulled a few screws and have a fan going to start the drying process.
Question to those who have done the above: What are the odds that the
core is dry, and only the upholstery is wet and compromised?
(Wishful thinking )
Last edited by Norseman on Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
-
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1906
- Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:41 pm
- Home Port: Lake Champlain
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
>>Question to those who have done the above: What are the odds that the
core is dry, and only the upholstery is wet and compromised?<<
We found dry upholstery and disintegrated core, but not wet. Depth of void was 3/8" - 1/2" tops. I filled with epoxy only. Certainly could have added wood pieces, but didn't see the need for such a small void.
We found it to be a tricky job due to the uncomfortable access. If I had to do all six, I'd probably tackle them one or two at a time. Cleaning off the old silicone takes forever.
core is dry, and only the upholstery is wet and compromised?<<
We found dry upholstery and disintegrated core, but not wet. Depth of void was 3/8" - 1/2" tops. I filled with epoxy only. Certainly could have added wood pieces, but didn't see the need for such a small void.
We found it to be a tricky job due to the uncomfortable access. If I had to do all six, I'd probably tackle them one or two at a time. Cleaning off the old silicone takes forever.
Nancy
2005 Albin 35CB
Yanmar 6LYA-STP 370
Valentine
Former boats
1995 Albin 28TE, Cummins 6BTA5.9 250, 2012-2022
1978 Trojan F32, 1998-2012
1983 Grady White 241 Weekender, 1988-1997
1980 Wellcraft 192 Classic, 1983-1987
2005 Albin 35CB
Yanmar 6LYA-STP 370
Valentine
Former boats
1995 Albin 28TE, Cummins 6BTA5.9 250, 2012-2022
1978 Trojan F32, 1998-2012
1983 Grady White 241 Weekender, 1988-1997
1980 Wellcraft 192 Classic, 1983-1987
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
- Contact:
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Thanks Nancy.. We found it to be a tricky job due to the uncomfortable access. If I had to do all six, I'd probably tackle them one or two at a time. Cleaning off the old silicone takes forever.
Got my work cut out for me
2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.
- Pitou
- Gold Member
- Posts: 2091
- Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:34 pm
- Home Port: Gloucester, MA
- Location: Essex, MA
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
Yes, lots of work ahead and it's not fun like the almost instant gratification of a new deck material being laid, but in the end .. very satisfying.
In doing portlight work on my 31 to replace a latch I was lucky with a dry core and no leak, but I painted the wood core using epoxy to protect the core .. 2 coats. Fortunately, I never had any issues with my 28.
On the 31, I've worked on water leaking in and around the blower air vents on the pilot house same idea as a portlight issue and they both had "soft wet core" on the bottom and partially up the vertical cut. Using a dremel tool, I ground out the wet core down about an 1/8" into solid core, wet out the core with straight epoxy and then filled the ground out voids with peanut butter consistency thickened epoxy. I like using 406 Colloidal Silica to thicken.
As stated earlier it's a real PITA removing all of the silicone on all mating surfaces, but it must be done to ensure a leak proof installation whether you choose to use a caulking product or butyl-tape .. I much prefer and use butyl-taple for all above the waterline bedding projects.
In doing portlight work on my 31 to replace a latch I was lucky with a dry core and no leak, but I painted the wood core using epoxy to protect the core .. 2 coats. Fortunately, I never had any issues with my 28.
On the 31, I've worked on water leaking in and around the blower air vents on the pilot house same idea as a portlight issue and they both had "soft wet core" on the bottom and partially up the vertical cut. Using a dremel tool, I ground out the wet core down about an 1/8" into solid core, wet out the core with straight epoxy and then filled the ground out voids with peanut butter consistency thickened epoxy. I like using 406 Colloidal Silica to thicken.
As stated earlier it's a real PITA removing all of the silicone on all mating surfaces, but it must be done to ensure a leak proof installation whether you choose to use a caulking product or butyl-tape .. I much prefer and use butyl-taple for all above the waterline bedding projects.
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kevinS
>><<>>;>
Former Boats:
- 2006 31TE / Hull# 221
Cummins QSC 8.3 / 500 hp
December '13 - April '23
- 2002 / 28TE / Hull# 614
Cummins 6BTA 370 hp / Alaskan Bulkhead
April '04 ~ May '13
>><<>>;>
Former Boats:
- 2006 31TE / Hull# 221
Cummins QSC 8.3 / 500 hp
December '13 - April '23
- 2002 / 28TE / Hull# 614
Cummins 6BTA 370 hp / Alaskan Bulkhead
April '04 ~ May '13
- Norseman
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:58 am
- Home Port: Palm Coast, Florida
- Location: Marina del Palma
- Contact:
Re: Beckson port leak - 28TE
I do prefer instant gratification, but those are usually more expensive.. Yes, lots of work ahead and it's not fun like the almost instant gratification of a new deck material being laid, but in the end .. very satisfying.
Never tried that, no idea how it works, cliff notes...?use a caulking product or butyl-tape
Thx, all good info around here.
2001 28TE, 6LP-STE, 1,337 hrs, 19X18 four-blade wheel.