Canopy design options/idea for the A25

[AdSurrey]

Hi all,

I am waiting to hear back from a canopy maker, or whatever the trade is called. Due to the lockdown there is no response at present but that gives me time to do more research so that I can try to figure what will work best for me. I already know the existing one, which I am quite pleased with myself as I stitched up some torn zips with a speedy stitcher last week, doesn't quite work for me, nor for the boat itself.

I like having windows in it simply for the extra view when maneuvering. I don't like the corner windows as they don't lend to the canopy rolling up so easy and you end up taking them out to do so which is just a flaff and a waste of effort.

It being a motor sailer also seems to not work very well with the present canopy as some of the lines go through to the cockpit and underneath the hems of the canopy. The cleats on the external of the cockpit sides (is that combs) are set too high so the canopy hem sits over them and lets in all the wind, not nice when you are overnighting. I may just move the cleats down or maybe change the way the lines run into the cockpit/wheelhouse but that would mean drilling and modding the wheelhouse and I'm not sure I want to do that anymore than is neccessary.

I anyone is willing to upload pics of their canopies to help me formulate ideas that would be great I figure I have a good bit of time as I'm not overly confident the lockdow is going to ease up any time soon, at least not here in the UK.

Thanks

Ad

[nebulatech]

I'm going to be custom making my canopy. I'm still finalizing the design. Right now I have an old tarp set up to make my template, with twist lock grommets to hold it in place. Ideally, I want my canopy (we call it a bimini in the USA) to extend over the aft cabin for a few reasons; I have seen people use the aft coachroof as seating, so it kind of extends the cockpit, I think it looks attractive, and I anticipate the extra layer of shade over the aft coachroof will help keep the aft accommodation cooler in the summer.

There are a couple of challenges I've come across, and maybe some owners with more experience can speak to them, but these are issues which I feel need to be addressed in the design:

1.) If one keeps the bimini at the same height as the wheelhouse roof, it creates a cramped, potentially dangerous situation when boarding or when returning to the cockpit from the foredeck. The A25 has narrow side decks, and entering the cockpit with a dodger that's the same height as the wheelhouse roof requires most people (including my 8 year old) to have to stoop down to enter. The position one has to squat to is (momentarily) cramped and uncomfortable. Not particularly ideal for guests who may be carrying gear. Ideally I would like my boating to be as frictionless as possible. In a heavy seaway, the squatted position may limit one's ability to maintain stability and stay securely on the boat.

I have seen hard tops which address this with the use of sliding panels to temporarily open up the top where people would board or enter the cockpit. I suppose a zippered flap could be employed on a canvas top, but the design would be complicated to keep the canvas taught while the flaps are open, and to avoid rainwater leaking through the zippers when closed. I'm still doing mental gymnastics to address this issue but my current thinking is to employ battens.

2.) Specific to carrying the bimini aft over the rear coachroof, the beam width at the aft end needs special consideration. I started my project by using the bimini poles which came with the boat and found them to be too wide at the stern. The poles I have were used for a cockpit-only bimini, not intended to be used so far aft. The boat tapers in the stern, so the poles were too wide. I did narrow them by about 10" or so, but that has proved not to be enough. My intent is to have the bimini able to be collapsed and rest on the aft deck between the pushpit rail and the rear coachroof. This requires the rear bimini pole to be wider than the coachroof. However, it seems to be impractical IMHO to have the bmini top this wide, this far aft. The problem is the bimini hinders movement on the aft side decks (again, they are narrow) and access to the stern fairleads. In good conditions, this is troublesome. In a chop or in a challenging docking situation, this is dangerous. The bimini top bulges out, pushing one over the (lower) pushpit rail, forcing one to lean their upper torso over the rail. I don't consider bimini tops to be sufficiently strong to add handles to. So once again, I find my self puzzled as to how to overcome this situation.


On a different tack, you mentioned that your current canopy is problematic due to the line handling for your sailing rig. Otherwise, from your picture it looks pretty nice. I understand your concern with rolling the corner window panels. It looks like they are fully removable. Perhaps you could just remove them and stow them below rather than roll them up. Just a thought. Regarding the line handling, I don't see the specific issue in your photo, but it looks like the mainsheet would come into the cockpit from the stern. On sailing boats, it is common to have lines come into the cockpit through the dodger. Below is an example image. I would bet that you could modify your canopy in such a fashion to accommodate your lines ( or have it done at relatively little expense ), either as a permanent fix or to make your existing canopy work for you while you work on a new one.

dodger.jpg

[DesertAlbin736]

I've posted previously about the canvas enclosure I made for our boat. Everyone has their own ideas, preferences, & needs. In our case I stayed with the basic stock design with modifications for a number of reasons.
1) Wanted to keep to the basic geometry to retain the option of using the sail rig even though we don't actually use it often.
2) Retain the single bow frame because it allows folding the whole enclosure forward against the wheelhouse to open up the cockpit.
3) Correct some visibility issues by adding screened side windows that can be unzipped and rolled up for more ventilation and made the back window wider.
4)Added canvas flaps that can cover side & rear window openings which when rolled down are held in place by Velcro and held open by snap straps when rolled up. Made cover strips over all the zippers as well as covers for grab rails and the wheelhouse roof hatches. Sun damage is the big issue here.
5)For our particular hot climate I sewed dark sunscreens over side & rear window openings and made vinyl windows removable to attach with Velcro when needed for cold/wet weather.
6) One downside to the stock design & single bow frame is that it precludes entry & exit from the sides, so we have to climb down from over the aft cabin top. To help deal with that we keep a folding step stool in the cockpit.

This shows the canvas with the mast rig set up, the rear window flaps rolled up and the side window flap rolled down. One advantage of the window covering flaps down, besides keeping the sun out, is allowing privacy when docked at a marina like this. If you're on a desktop PC, click twice on the photo for zoom view.

20180621_191950.jpg

Crappy old canvas. Wasn't too bad when we bought the boat, but the hot AZ sun soon did the vinyl window in, and I had made the mistake of draping a canvas tarp over it which stained the Sunbrella fabric. The canvas was almost 20 years old anyway.

DSCN2042.JPG

Old stock design with no side windows. Made rear visibility very difficult when trying to back up in close quarters.

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New design with side openings & wider back window.
With flap down

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Flap rolled up with screen in place

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Screen rolled up & open for entry/exit

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Back & side flaps down

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Side flap up, screen in place

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Sides rolled up for best venitilation.

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Though not easy & took a lot of thought and a learning curve on sewing canvas it was kind of fun. Saved a lot on labor, but still costly in terms of materials, over $600US on materials & supplies. A 1,750 yard spool of PTFE UV resistant thread alone cost $110, but worthwhile investment considering the desert climate the boat is exposed to here. High of 38* C/101* F expected here today & only first week of May, by mid July can hit 47*C/117* F . During initial sewing we didn't have our own walking foot sewing machine and borrowed a Sailrite machine from friends. But couldn't get the PTFE thread to work, kept skipping stitches despite trying every trick in the book including different types of needles. So ended up using more conventional V92 polyester UV thread. However in our harsh UV environment it didn't hold up well, and since then bought our own walking foot machine, which for some reason or other handles the PTFE thread better than the machine we borrowed and since then have had to re-stitch many of the seams, even as recently as last week.

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AdSurrey, your boat is a lot like mine with the early mast rig version with the mast stepped right up against the windshield and a hard top similar to mine except I have two opening hatches, also of my own design & construction.

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[DesertAlbin736]

Regards Nebulatech's comment on sail rig main sheet, the tackle block attaches at the front edge of the aft cabin top & the tail of the line goes into the cockpit. Jib sheets come in over the lip of the cockpit from pulley blocks on tracks on the side deck. Mine has a weird sort of clam/jam cleats mounted on the inside wall of the cockpit of a type I've never seen before, circular about 2.5" diameter and an inch or so high with groove cut through the middle. So the jib sheets have to come between the sides of the cockpit and the canvas unless the canvas is folded up. On our 2018 PNW cruise with WillieC we used our mast and sail rig, but only in motor sailing mode on a beam reach with mainsail only and did not use the jib. Reason being the deck sweeper jib/genoa blocks half the view from the helm. Having the sail up helped dampen roll rate, but made little difference in speed or fuel economy.

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[Sunsetrider]

Here's mine, side windows off (they have see-thru panels, as does the back section). we lie it as it is capable of multiple configurations. The rear section also has a zippered fold-down with screening. We typically leave the section above the helm open and sail standing up.

[honza]

Sunsetrider, I really like your cockpit cover. Would it be possible to post some pictures of the different configurations a details of the wheel house cover? Yours looks like more heavy duty than others with more grommets. I am heaving problems to figure out the details - reinforcement, corners etc. - that wind would not drive water under it.

[Sunsetrider]

Some different views:

Canopy2.jpg

Canopy3.jpg

Canopy4.jpg

Canopy5.jpg

Canopy6.jpg

[Sunsetrider]

Canopy1.jpg

I can't seem to delete the extra pic.

[honza]

It is great. Is there some kind of standing brace tubing in the aft corner?

[Sunsetrider]

Yes, you can see the tubing in the photo with the dinette table in the first set.

[AdSurrey]

Thanks for the replies, sorry I've been slow to respond, it's been a busy month. Nebulatech I thought I had taken pictures of mine to show you but can't find them so I'll try to explain. With regard to the squatting to enter the cockpit mine has exactly what you suggest in that there is an extra long zip towards the wheelhouse which runs under the connecting flap between the canopy and the wheelhouse allowing one to step into that cockpit with most of the canopy in place. When I eventually do hear back from one of the companies I will either see if they can make the rear window longer and remove the corner windows and if not keep that part as it is and just have them remove the windows from the access V doors (gulls). I have seen quite a few with much better zip protection and watertightedness and wind protection than mine, by far so I will see what they offer first and if need be throw in my two pennies. I like having the option for an open cockpit so no hard top there for me but I do see the value in that too. So many options lol And Kudos to those of you that make your own, I'm handy with the speedy stitcher but that's as much sewing as I can handle lol.

[DesertAlbin736]

Home Port: Hoo, Rochester? Hoo? What? Where? Oh. OK, Rochester on the River Medway, UK, not Rochester, New York on Lake Ontario or Rochester, Minnesota. Hello from across the pond!

Wait! OMG, I think I see your boat on a choppy day at left in this photo! Could it be! (click on photo to zoom) That looks like an interesting place, tides drying out to mud flats, opens out to the sea at Margate. Not far from Dunkirk, very historic.

hoopandora.jpg

Margate's role in the 1940 Dunkirk evacuation.
http://dunkirk1940.org/index.php?&p=1_327


Don't tell me, let me guess. Is this the marina basin where Pandora was docked in the picture you posted? Is the large gray roof building at top the the same yellow building seen in the background of your photo? If so then it goes aground at low tide? It's why so many UK boats have bilge keels.

hoodock.jpg

This looks like a fixer upper project candidate on the hard in the Port Werburgh boatyard in Hoo. Just a little dry rot, every boat's got some!

Hoodat.jpg

You've got some drying tides there, eh?

hootides.jpg

You guys have some really cool boats over there. What's this one? I like it!

hooboat.jpg

[WillieC]

Looks like the offspring of an A25 and a Washington State ferry! (The runt of the litter.)

[AdSurrey]

Hi DesertAlbin736,

Where did you get that picture? I'm aboard now in the same place but the angle and location means someone from the marina next door took it.

Yes mud flats and aground every day, there are parts that don't dry out as it's quite a big area. Trust me bilge keels don't guarantee a boat will stay level, the mud is soft as s***. But is amazing how much the water recedes.

He's the same e building which is their workshop I believe, Pandora is moored there in the photo as google maps is about 18 months out with updates.

The boat looks to be some sort of dawn craft variation, popular for it's time and if it is then it will fetch a good price as they are like rocking horse shit and very sought after.

You try having a conversation about where you boat is moored and everytime you say Hoo they say "no, where is it moored?" Lol

[DesertAlbin736]

Hoo's on first? He's on second. I don't know is on third. The photos are screen shots off Google Maps. That led to noticing it's close to Margate, which being a history buff I recalled that Margate was one of the ports of debarkation for the fleet of "Little Ships" involved during the 1940 Dunkirk evacuation. We get BBC shows on our PBS Masterpiece Theater a year after they're shown in England & we just got through watching the first series of "World On Fire". That ended with a cliffhanger. Hope they do a second series (or season as we say)