New Member - with questions...

[Chaz]

Hi All, Filling in the cold winter with some Albin web-surfing and found this site. Been a member of the Yahoo Albin Cruisers Group for a while, but have found it to be difficult to navigate (the site that is). Hope to have a better experience here.
Currently own a 1984 Albin 27AC that I keep on a mooring in Oyster Bay Long Island NY. Over-propped it this past summer (18", ouch!) and the old Lehman 4D61 has not been the same since. Thinking it may be time to re-power and was hoping I could leverage the experience of others. Is it worth the $18k to drop-in a Yanmar 150hp? What kind of speed could I potentially get? Currently push 8kts and would love to see 12-15kts.

Thanks,
Charles

[Mariner]

Welcome Charles. I also joined the Yahoo Group and found it to be difficult to navigate and use. Also, it was clearly geared toward the classic cruisers, which is not what we have, so it wasn't terribly relevant to me. We'd like to recruit more classic Albin owners, so we're happy to have you here.

[Chaz]

Thanks for the prompt post. What exactly constitutes a "classic" Albin cruiser?

[Fortunate]

Charles,

You and I seem to be in the same boat, so to speak. The yahoo site is full of valuble information for the "classics", but is quirky. This site seems to be managed by some computer savvy folks.

The folks on the Yahoo site, who seem to know the older Albins inside and out, indicate that you need to very cautious when thinking of repowering. The hull is designed for what was originally installed and the speed (if you want to call it that) the old 61hps get you to. I have heard of hull cracks and that sort of thing when someone gets overzealous with a repower.

Boy, it sure would be nice to get a few more knots out of the old girl, wouldn't it?

[jcollins]

Thanks for the prompt post. What exactly constitutes a "classic" Albin cruiser?

That's easy...you and Kim own one
In thinking about a repower, aren't you limited to hull speed? I was looking at a post about a repower on the 25 and the writer recommends a 25 HP motor.

I'm guessing, on your 27, that a 100HP turbo would get you to 12 knots? Sound right?
Look around for posts from tony amalfitano. He just sold his 27.

Welcome to the group.

[Mariner]

Thanks for the prompt post. What exactly constitutes a "classic" Albin cruiser?

I'm going to say any of the old displacement hull models.

[Chaz]

I've read a bunch of conflicting/competing specs as to the actual "hull speed" of an AC27, from <10kts is the best you can expect, to >18kts and able to ski behind. Being reasonable (and sane), I'm thinking I could more than double my hp to 150hp (from 61hp) with the same weight engine, and bring my cruise speed up to a comfortable 12kts without over-stressing the hull, stringers, keel/skeg or rudder. Trust I will research this to death before making the plunge.

[Veebyes2]

At 12 kts your 27 will look something like this.

[Chaz]

WOW!
She looks like she is just itching to hop up on a plane! Can you advise as to what size engine, what she cruises at (rpm/kts and wot/rpm/kts) and what fuel consumption is like? Is this a sane endeavor?

Thanks for sharing the pics!!

[Veebyes2]

That is/was my 1986 27. I bought it new & ordered it with the Westerbeke W100. I ordered it because a friend had bought his A27AC the year before & he special ordered his with the Westerbeke 100hp. He did some serious prop tinkering & had his boat up to 15kts, lightly loaded. We, on the other hand, were always heavily loaded for a full weekend out.

Still, that did not mean that we did not race to see which boat was faster. I got some serious whoop ass.

Here is what may be the fastest A27 on earth it has a Cummins 210hp in it. This is the same basic engine that powers Dodge trucks & my A32.

[Veebyes2]

Forgot to answer the questions. WOT, if I remember right, was around 3300rpm. The Westerbeke W100 is a naturally asperated engine. I would cruise at somewhere between 1800 & 2200 Which was at & just a little above hull speed. My average fuel burn was under 1.5gph. Embarassingly cheap to run.

The reasoning of the other A27AC owner & myself was, have something a little large & not have to beat it to death to get a decent speed.

The A27 with the Cummins is just wild. If standing in the cockpit & the boat is put into gear, it can throw you off balance if you are not prepared as the prop bites. It does 15kts with 8 people in the boat.

[Chaz]

Hummm, so if a factory Albin was available with a 100hp, and one actually survived a 210hp Cummins, then re-powering with a potential 150hp Yanmar is not unreasonable.
Thanks for the WOT and crusing rpm's, could you perhaps recall the kt speed as well? You mention reaching "hull speed", and I've heard AC27 hull speed quotes from 10kts to 15kts, thinking 12kts is the sweet spot.

[Dave]

I have a 1988 Albin 27 soft top that came with an Isuzu 160 HP engine. My top speed is around 8 knots at about 2500 RPM, any more than that I worry about pushing the engine too hard. Even when I pushed it a bit more it dosen't seem to go any faster just makes bigger waves. A different prop may help but these hulls weren't designed for speed. Enjoy your boat!

[rt11002003]

Chaz,

Being a long time sailor, hull speed was almost always a factor to consider when cruising.

In theory for displacement hulls, it is computed by taking the square root of the waterline length multiplied by 1.34. The result is in knots.

In real life, displacement sailing hulls can exceed hull speed when surfing and can even plane, given enough force, like a 25 knot gust with the spinnaker and the jib flying along with the mainsail and the boat about 120 to 140 degrees off the wind.

Motor vessels will do the same thing. Veebyes2 makes very good points. A larger engine in the A27 can push it above hull speed if necessary, how much above is the question. And having more power doesn't mean one has to use it all the time.

Our A27AC with the 70 or 78 (?) HP Yanmar w/turbo has pushed us over hull speed when surfing off the big wake of a "tow" on the TN River. However, it won't do it in flat water.

Large engines in boats are like large engines in cars if one uses their full capabilities one is going to stress something. Over time one will discover what was stressed.

By the way Veebyes2, the A27 in your photo with the 210 HP looks like a Sport. Do you have any idea what they weigh?

I'd like to have the new 150 HP Yanmar, but with only 525 hours on our engine it won't happen. Besides $16K would be issue. My wife would probably insist we buy a Mainship 390.

Gene

[Veebyes2]

I'm glad somebody had the formula for calculating hull speed. I just look over the back of the boat. When I see the water is pulling away from the hull at the bottom of the transom I figure I have exceeded hull speed. For the 27 I think it is about 8 or 9 kts. Another indication is the bow starting to rise/stern starting to squat.

If you look very carefully from the stern of a 27 you will see that the hull has a slight 'hook' in the after sections. I believe this built in trim tab, if you will' is the reason why the boat runs as flat as it does at speed.

The 27 with the 210hp Cummins is a little heavier than my old 27AC with the Westerbeke 100. The Westerbeke 100 required raising the waterline by 1" at the stern & over 3" at the bow. The Westerbeke is a 6 cylinder engine that has a substantial block. Of course the Admiral required all knids of 'stuff' to be onboard full time for our weekending too.

I believe the standard specs on the 27s show them to be around 7,500# dry.