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A Schilling rudder
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
A Schilling rudder
For the other driveline work I was doing on our A27, I had to drop the rudder in order to pull the shaft. Not one to ever "leave well enough alone" I decided to take the opportunity to modify the rudder. Anyone who operates a single screw boat is always interested in increased control, right?
One limiting factor in inboard engine maneuvering is the "stall angle" of the rudder, usually around 35 degrees. At that point and beyond, flow detaches from the back side of the rudder, and it will no longer provide turning force. This stalling can be delayed, allowing the rudder to function effectively at greater angles of attack, by several means. Articulated rudders have a moving plate on the trailing edge, sort of a "rudder on a rudder" that acts just like the flaps on an aircraft wing. Those work great, but they are complicated, and rely on moving parts that are underwater and so, difficult to service. A simpler means of achieving the same result is a Schilling rudder, also known as a "thistle" or "fishtail" type.
These use a modified "V" tail that acts to promote smooth, attached flow under maneuvering, and can work nearly as well as the articulated type. The down side is that they do add some drag, so you usually not see them used on boats designed to operate at planing or near planing speeds. For our 7.5kt cruising speed though, the drag losses should be negligible.
I should say too that what I am building here is not a "true" Schilling rudder, as they have a concave shape through the middle of the foil section. As I am just modifying the original straight-sided rudder, that won't be the case here. As I understand it however, that shape is only added to minutely decrease drag, and not to influence it's steering ability.
To work best, these rudders also used end plates, top and bottom, so we'll start with those. I made paper patterns and cut them from some old fiberglass decking I had saved from a previous project.
Here it is on the rudder:
Those will be bonded on with thickened epoxy, next we'll be forming the "fishtails".
TBC
One limiting factor in inboard engine maneuvering is the "stall angle" of the rudder, usually around 35 degrees. At that point and beyond, flow detaches from the back side of the rudder, and it will no longer provide turning force. This stalling can be delayed, allowing the rudder to function effectively at greater angles of attack, by several means. Articulated rudders have a moving plate on the trailing edge, sort of a "rudder on a rudder" that acts just like the flaps on an aircraft wing. Those work great, but they are complicated, and rely on moving parts that are underwater and so, difficult to service. A simpler means of achieving the same result is a Schilling rudder, also known as a "thistle" or "fishtail" type.
These use a modified "V" tail that acts to promote smooth, attached flow under maneuvering, and can work nearly as well as the articulated type. The down side is that they do add some drag, so you usually not see them used on boats designed to operate at planing or near planing speeds. For our 7.5kt cruising speed though, the drag losses should be negligible.
I should say too that what I am building here is not a "true" Schilling rudder, as they have a concave shape through the middle of the foil section. As I am just modifying the original straight-sided rudder, that won't be the case here. As I understand it however, that shape is only added to minutely decrease drag, and not to influence it's steering ability.
To work best, these rudders also used end plates, top and bottom, so we'll start with those. I made paper patterns and cut them from some old fiberglass decking I had saved from a previous project.
Here it is on the rudder:
Those will be bonded on with thickened epoxy, next we'll be forming the "fishtails".
TBC
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Re: A Schilling rudder
I looked around in my shop for something to use to form the V tail, and I spied a length of 4" PVC thin-wall soil pipe, and I figured that it might serve nicely. I cut it to length, then ripped three sections from it with a bandsaw. The trailing edge of the rudder measured 3/4" thick, so I used a bit of plywood to hold them in place for gluing with pipe cement. Here you see the glue-up, using some more PVC pipe scraps -- for clamps this time.
After that it was screwed onto the rudder with small SS flathead screws, and filled with foam at the same time.
TBC
After that it was screwed onto the rudder with small SS flathead screws, and filled with foam at the same time.
TBC
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Re: A Schilling rudder
After that, it was covered in 10oz cloth in epoxy resin, and all the corners were filleted with thickened epoxy.
Then, back onto the boat it went, along with the new laminated strut.
How will it work? I don't know -- but I guess I'll find out sometime after launching.
Tom
Then, back onto the boat it went, along with the new laminated strut.
How will it work? I don't know -- but I guess I'll find out sometime after launching.
Tom
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- First Mate
- Posts: 398
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- Home Port: Stuart Lake BC
Re: A Schilling rudder
Nice work, interesting experiment Tom.
Yours does have a concave in it, effectively, since the original rudder starts fat and then fines down. Yours actually looks rather closer to the concept than the examples shown in the Wikipedia article.
I hope you have records of speed and fuel consumption at given rpm for comparison.
Yours does have a concave in it, effectively, since the original rudder starts fat and then fines down. Yours actually looks rather closer to the concept than the examples shown in the Wikipedia article.
I hope you have records of speed and fuel consumption at given rpm for comparison.
BUYADODGEIFYOUHAVETOBUYAFORDIFYOUWANTTOBUTBUYAGMIFYOUPOSSIBLYCAN
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- Gold Member
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- Home Port: Peoria, AZ USA
Re: A Schilling rudder
Cool! You've been a busy boy! Should give a boost to "rudder kicks" for tight maneuvering.
La Dolce Vita
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Re: A Schilling rudder
It’s a case of “shelter at home — shop”DesertAlbin736 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:46 pm Cool! You've been a busy boy! Should give a boost to "rudder kicks" for tight maneuvering.
- sail149
- Gold Member
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:30 pm
- Home Port: Stuck at home on trailer! Chesapeake bay intended....
- Location: Eastern PA
Re: A Schilling rudder
So your boat must be an early /transition version as the molded shape rudder without an attached shoe were changed to flat plate rudders with shoe fairly early in the 2nd production run. For what it's worth the size of the rudder on the A27 is huge compared to higher speed boats who are trying to reduce drag but loose effective steering at slow (A27) speeds.
Your results will I hope be interesting . Cheers Warren
Your results will I hope be interesting . Cheers Warren
Warren
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
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- First Mate
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- Home Port: Stuart Lake BC
Re: A Schilling rudder
Of course a person could add an extension to the rudder à la catboat:
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BUYADODGEIFYOUHAVETOBUYAFORDIFYOUWANTTOBUTBUYAGMIFYOUPOSSIBLYCAN
- sail149
- Gold Member
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:30 pm
- Home Port: Stuck at home on trailer! Chesapeake bay intended....
- Location: Eastern PA
Re: A Schilling rudder
Pretty picture but they are very ineffective rudders espically as the boat heels! The little boat in the back ground is a much better design.
Warren
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
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- First Mate
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- Home Port: Stuart Lake BC
Re: A Schilling rudder
But A27s don't heel much.
BUYADODGEIFYOUHAVETOBUYAFORDIFYOUWANTTOBUTBUYAGMIFYOUPOSSIBLYCAN
- sail149
- Gold Member
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:30 pm
- Home Port: Stuck at home on trailer! Chesapeake bay intended....
- Location: Eastern PA
Re: A Schilling rudder
Bob agreed but a rudder is much more efficient when the chord ( for and aft length) is short , and depth is better for more effect. Look at the rudders on hispeed sailboats where they want to minimize drag with max efficiency even when sailing flat.
Warren
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61
'84. 27AC. Lehman 4D61