Fat Bøttømed Girls

[DesertAlbin736]

Yep, that was coming off the 2018 Desolation Sound Cruise & attending the Albineers of BC July rendezvous. Also the first and probably last time we'll use the mast & sail rig. If I recall, counting us & WillieC there were six Albin 25s attending the 2018 Ladysmith rendezvous. We returned again last year & Rick (WillieC) came by land & ferry from Seattle without his boat (no small effort), and there were eight A25's attending including, ours, Ives (ssrig), & Dave K (dkirsop). What a great bunch of folks & great memories. I gifted their club with an extra Lake Pleasant (AZ) Sailing Club burgee that we had on board.

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"Transition", the boat with sail rig in left foreground above belongs to the same folks who design & market Albin 25 swag on zazzle.com, including personalized coffee mugs with Albin logo, throw pillows, T shirts, both long & short sleeve, polo shirts, log books, business cards, post it note pads, playing cards, tote bags, duvet covers, and even mens' ties. Guys, patronize these folks, they're nice people. As far as I know they're the only source of Albin 25 dedicated swag gifts. I had met up with Transition once before in 2014, at the 2014 AOG PNW rendzevous in Roche Harbor in the San Juans in Washington. They were only other A25 at that event besides us. The rest where 27FC's, TE boats, and a trawler.

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https://www.zazzle.com/s/albin

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[Bob Noodat]

DA, when you had your sail up, did you notice a reduction in movement, especially roll? As you know, it is still common in Europe to see smaller commercial fishing boats of traditional type with stabilizing sails, usually on a mizzen. As well as reducing roll, they help to maintain heading despite low steerage during actual fishing. Here are two modern Norwegian fishing boats:

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And a model of a so-called North Sea drifter, from the English east coast:

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The sail area can apparently be quite small compared to size of vessel and still have a significant effect.

[DesertAlbin736]

Yes we did notice some dampening of roll rate. If we were to keep the boat in the water in one place full time, or even dry stored at a mast up yard near a launch ramp like we used to with our previous sailboat at Lake Pleasant we would use the sail rig. But otherwise it's not worth the effort to set up & take down, a 2 hour job, for the kind of travels we do. Otherwise we'd still have a sailboat. Switching to a pocket trawler in the first place was all about doing away with mast raising. The only way to have a sailboat with mast that's easy to set up is with a small one that only has sitting head room in the cabin.

[Bob Noodat]

Unless......

a person were to shorten the mast and have it hinged at a point clear above the wheelhouse (you see this on catboats that can be rigged in 5 minutes, like the ComPac Suncat). Below the hinge point a boom and gaff (or boom and lug) rest on the pilothouse roof when the mast is stowed. The stowed mast does not project behind the transom, so is never removed for trailering.

There are only 2 shrouds and 2 stays. Only the forestay is disconnected for transport. Careful placing of shroud chainplates causes the shrouds to tauten when the mast is raised. The mast is so light that it can be lifted easily with one hand, then the forestay is walked forward and secured. This is roughly the idea.

https://www.com-pacyachts.com/mastendr-mastraising.html

If gaff rigged, two halyards raise the gaff and boom, and the mainsheet controls boom swing. As with a catboat this rig is self tacking. You would only need something like 70 to 100 square feet of sail.

Easy to modify one of the auxiliary sailing A25s to this. With just a pair of shrouds the boom could swing very wide (à la catboat) and I think even a small sail would lend quite a push to the boat. Going into the wind, it would be sheeted tight and act as a stabilizer for roll and maintaining heading.

Just my idle thoughts.

[nebulatech]

Going into the wind, it would be sheeted tight and act as a stabilizer for roll and maintaining heading.

Going into the wind, the sail would contribute leeway without a keel to prevent slippage. You benefit most from a stabilizing sail in a beam sea, something I actively try to avoid. There are times when its unavoidable, like lining up for a narrow breakwater. Those instances are usually short lived, but can be uncomfortable, and a stabilizer does help.

[Bob Noodat]

Going into the wind wouldn't leeway be to push you backwards? With no keel, if you're worried about leeway then best to remove the mast altogether! The A25 does have a keel, just not much of one.

As for stability, on Stuart Lake, the cliffs, hills and a mountain, Mt. Pope, surrounding the lake mean that sudden gusts come from unpredictable directions, so I was thinking that if the A25 rolls as much as everyone says, then having the sail up would mitigate this: you wouldn't be thrown sideways quite so violently.

All theory, and I'll admit that my sailing theory is none too soundly based.

[nebulatech]

I've never actually motored my A25 (other than towed by a dingy) but when I first stepped aboard, the first thing I noticed was how tender it was. I imagine it does roll quite a bit. And yes, you're right, going directly into the wind the sail wouldn't create leeway. I was thinking "close to the wind," 10-25 degrees or so. But then again, its the headsail that would push the bow off the wind, not as much from a centrally located main.

[Bob Noodat]

I hate my jib. Since my wife has balance issues, it is always Lascar Bob who fights his cursing way to the bow to wrestle the jib while the boat heels 45° one way, then 45° the other, way, then pitches, then yaws, then a wave breaks over the bow, and I'm hanging on with one hand, trying to work with the other hand aided by my teeth and my knees, then my hat flies off to sink down to Hat Nirvana on the lake bottom, and meanwhile a series of orders is being issued from the tiller..... I really hate my jib. No Zen and the Art of Jib Handling for me!

That is why I would have no foresail on this theoretical rig, since there would be no need to extract more impulsion from the wind, its primary purpose being stabilization.

[nebulatech]

I once sailed on a Freedom 40 (cat rigged ketch). I remain impressed by those boats, not just the sail handling but the rugged, seaworthy construction. 4 cockpit scuppers of 2" diameter, tiller hung on the stern, center cockpit. Very cool boats.

[WillieC]

Ditch the sail. Roll with it, baby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_vkKozA8OI

[Bob Noodat]

Back to the original theme: thanks to dkirsop, I found a picture of what seems to be a "specimen" Albin 25 in Sweden, the Elin. Notice where the waterline is painted. The freeboard appears much lower at the stern compared to the bow than on a typical North American boat, and definitely not sweeping upwards with the chine near the bow. This would make the boat look level in the water as opposed to the usual bottom-down look of boats over here. I think that answers my question.

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[DesertAlbin736]

Unless......

a person were to shorten the mast and have it hinged at a point clear above the wheelhouse (you see this on catboats that can be rigged in 5 minutes, like the ComPac Suncat).

We have seen such a boat docked in the marina at Friday Harbor on San Juan Island, WA in 2016. Named "Gladness" it had just such a tabernacle similar to Compac Sun Cats. From my vast collection of A25 sightings:

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Unfortunately the owner was not around so we didn't get to meet. But this boat sure was tricked out including a manual Lofrans anchor windlass. Note the flat stock the brace between aluminum tabernacle and the "BC" hard top. Also there was no boom attached to the mast although there were mainsail halyards in place, so it's hard to say if whether the owner had or used sails or not.

[DesertAlbin736]

On bottom paint, here's how ours looks after fresh bottom job:

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I once sailed on a Freedom 40 (cat rigged ketch). I remain impressed by those boats, not just the sail handling but the rugged, seaworthy construction. 4 cockpit scuppers of 2" diameter, tiller hung on the stern, center cockpit. Very cool boats.

Yes they are, big fat un-stayed keel stepped mast(s). One of our club members had a Freedom 28 sloop on the lake. The rudder fell off & sank in over 100 ft of water. But that's another story. Speaking of cat rigged boats with un-stayed masts there's the Nonsuch with wishbone sail boom. Coincidentally Canadian made. Very popular in New England states.

[Bob Noodat]

DA: Thanks for those great pictures. Exactly what I was thinking of for a hinged mast. I'd have a shorter mast with a boom and gaff, or maybe boom and lug. Especially with a lug rig the boom could be pretty lightweight since it serves more as a spacer than anything.

Is that boat called Gladness or is it Madness? Cannot quite make it out.

Nice job on the paint.

Nonsuch catboats are really ingenious. Huge boats for their length.

[DesertAlbin736]

The A25 was named "Gladness". Unique in that the transom was painted forest green. One of our sailing club members, last year's commodore, is a snow bird who keeps a Nunsuch 30 back east somewhere in Connecticut.