ice box ?

[slip31]

does anyone have suggestion on how to add real refrigeration to a 27fc ?

[tego]

Go to "Albin Owners Group" website and look up your subject. It's been discussed several times over the years. They've converted the icebox and added reefers in a couple of locations. Also look up "Engle" reefer units. They're 12volt and make good cockpit tables/seats. Good Luck! Ben "87 27FC

[sailonset]

I bought an Engle MR040F to install forward of the galley cabinet. The previous owner had a 110v "dorm" fridge there, so the folding shelf is gone, as is the seat cushion. The Engle works well in our kitchen, tested with thawing turkeys in the holiday season. Temperature very consistent; just whirs every so often. I have two 110w solar panels for the pilothouse roof, which I'm hoping can run the cooler at anchor.

[Jay Knoll]

check out my thread Better Days Refit there are pics/discussion in there on my refrigeration install.

[ssrig]

On my thread too! I put a Dometic Dual Zone in that spot and love it! Very efficient and recommend it. You will need to cut some fibreglass to fit but is pretty easy.
http://www.albinowners.net/aog/viewtopi ... &start=135

[Bob Noodat]

I bought an Engle MR040F to install forward of the galley cabinet. The previous owner had a 110v "dorm" fridge there, so the folding shelf is gone, as is the seat cushion. The Engle works well in our kitchen, tested with thawing turkeys in the holiday season. Temperature very consistent; just whirs every so often. I have two 110w solar panels for the pilothouse roof, which I'm hoping can run the cooler at anchor.

Checked out that Engle model number on the Make-Bezos-Amazonly-Richer site. There is a confusing number of makers and models and prices. What are the differences between the $200 five star rated coolers snd the $2,600 five star rated coolers?

[sailonset]

Hi Bob,
I looked at reviews for marine/RV units. The Engel looked best, has a plastic case, not metal, and the factory was offering $150 off. $200 too cheap; $2500 too expensive. The Norcold is the unit I've always heard of, but the Engel looked better. Esp. with the price break!
dge

[Bob Noodat]

Thanks for that. I am still mystified though.

What criteria did you use for rejecting the $200 units? If it is both AC and DC operable, well insulated, draws the same or less current for a given performance and is of a dimension that fits your needs, then the cheapest one would be the one to buy. The only easily assessible parameter is the set of dimensions, so how does one ascertain performance, or at least how did you make your selection?

[WillieC]

http://www.albinowners.net/aog/viewtopi ... lit=Unique

This and this, mentioned above just about covers it.

http://www.albinowners.net/aog/viewtopi ... &start=135

These threads are mainly for A25s but there is a ton of info here.

Good luck!

[Bob Noodat]

Hmm. Thanks for that Willie. Those 99 pages seem to cover everything but that. I'll have no problem with setting up the power supply and building a cabinet, but I cannot find an objective review of these coolers, or why to choose one over another. Almost anything like this, ditto with navigation electronics, seems to come down to "Hey, look at me!".

[sailonset]

Size is one reason for the lower-priced units. A Practical Sailor review concluded with this:

The compressor system used in the Engel and Norcold fridge/freezers proved to be far more efficient than the Danfoss reciprocating compressor used in the Waeco. In our tests, the Waecos amp draw was nearly 50 percent higher than a comparably sized Norcold unit. When coupled with the top-shelf construction and materials of the Engel and Norcold units, wed opt for one of these every time.

When shopping for a portable fridge/freezer, first find the right size, then buy whichever you can find at a cheaper price, Engel or Norcold. You may find only an Engel available in the size you seek as they market several more sizes than Norcold.

Looking now, the Dometic 40-qt at $500 appears to be a good choice. It may be the same compressor as the Waeco, which would be a mark against it.

Budget aside, I find gut feelings are the deciding factor after reviewing the many choices for anything.

[Bob Noodat]

Thanks for that. It certainly led me in a good direction. Practical Sailor reviewed different types of portable refrigeration several times, it seems. A Google search for Practical Sailor and cooler will bring them up.
Unfortunately the articles date between 1998 and 2007, which appears to be the newest one. But, it looks like nothing really new has come along since then in any case, so maybe that does not matter. One thing I hate as a scientist, and one who has it Piled higher and Deeper than most, is moving goal posts. It seems that they must hire arts graduates to perform, or maybe just to write up, these comparative tests. So, in this one 2007 article:
https://www.practical-sailor.com/belowd ... ation-test
- things start out promisingly, having the 4 tested units side by side in a 76 degree controlled environment, then they list their testing devices by impressive model number, blablabla. It all sounds very objective, they also do the scientist-thing by having a specific group of items they put in their thermoelectric units, namely:
(2) six-packs of canned soda
(1) six-pack of bottled beer
(1) gallon of lemonade
(1) gallon of ice tea
(1) pound sliced turkey breast
(1) 1 pound boneless ham
(2) pound blocks of cheese
But then they go and blow it all apart by saying , for one model: "It had so much extra room, we were able to load 12 one-pound packs of burger meat, too." Well, Jeez! Then how can they perform objective comparative cooling rates and power draw?! This is like a 5th grade science project, and frankly a C is the best they could hope for.

I then came across another review, this time not boat-specific, and comparing compressor refrigerators.
https://bestportableproducts.com/best-portable-fridges/
Generally well written. A lot of good focus on insulation and lid construction. But nothing to tell the reader objectively about current draw or cooling rates. We Piled higher and Deeper people like graphs and bar charts and tables. Hey, if nothing else give me tables. Well goody, this article has a table. But it tells you nothing you could not get off the manufacturer's descriptions on Amazon. Which is why cynical old me suspects that many of these reviews are inventions, pure BS without the P, the h or the D, and that the writers get a kickback for every click on a product on Amazon, and may never have even turned one of these units on. Maybe I am being unfair, probably I am, but that is what I feel.

So, here is yet another review of compressor units, by an RV site:
https://www.thewaywardhome.com/12-volt-refrigerator/
This is well and clearly written and reviews the types of portable refrigeration. It lacks tables, but they do give more information about current draw. However, along the way they make a statement that appears to have nothing backing it objectively, apart from a claim by one particular compressor manufacturer about their own product:
"The best type of compressor for a portable 12-volt refrigerator is a Danfoss compressor. This is the leading compressor in the fridge industry, and with good cause. According to the Danfoss website, these compressors have an electronic control unit with built-in speed control, thermostat signal, thermal protection, and a turn-off switch that prevents the compressor from damaging a battery. They also have an electronic thermostat, fan speed control and are highly energy efficient."
This then becomes the basis for effectively downgrading the majority of compressor units on the market. That I do not like. (What is further confusing is that Practical Sailor, who no doubt are getting kickbacks from different people, state that the Danfoss compressors are far less efficient! Go figure, as they say.) However, having made that caveat, this third article does give the best overview of units and their power requirements, and I think can help steer you towards a choice, although I would not rule out any model on the basis of compressor brand unless someone reading this can give me a more objective analysis of why one make might indeed be more durable or more efficient than another.
=================================================
So, I have not yet found a basis for buying one particular unit, but here are my thoughts on the topic.
Most people on this Classics subforum have a limited number of criteria for refrigeration choice:

1. Size. What is a minimum in terms of useful capacity as opposed to the maximum space they wish to devote to a unit. Very personal to the individual boater.
2. Level of portability. Are you going to be popping it in and out for picnics, to sanitize it, for supermarket trips? Or is it going to stay in one place pretty much forever. Some larger units are very heavy.
3. Current draw. This is a big one. Current draw is very variable, solar panels and/or banks of batteries may supply a power hungry unit, but efficiency will always be important to independence when voyaging, and also not having to put excessive infrastructure or investment in addition to buying the fridge/cooler, is desirable. The cheaper thermoelectric units draw much more power than the more expensive compressor units. This is the single biggest difference, and primary determinant of which you buy.
4. Heat build up. Often overlooked, this can be important in a boat. Any powered refrigeration unit can only cool by extracting heat, the heat has to go somewhere, and due to the inherent inefficiency of any thermodynamic process, much more heat is generated than is extracted during cooling. That is why you need to supply energy in some form. Luckily for A25 users, the most logical place for a refrigeration unit seems to be in the cockpit area, because any refrigeration in the small cabin is going to greatly increase heat buildup, and then make the refrigeration unit more inefficient, use more power, generate more heat, in a vicious cycle.
5. Expense, naturally. Another very personal choice of priorities.
6. Duration of usage. Are you a weekend tripper with the occasional week's cruise, or do you spend much of your summer afloat? If the latter, then the higher priced units may pay in the long run, especially if you don't have to have banks of ugly solar panels (sorry, but they are).
7. Some people need a freezer. Much higher power usage and only the compressor units will do it.

First off, let's be honest: for the occasional tripper, a good Coleman or other insulated icebox/cooler may be all you need. A hundred bucks. Add bags of ice. We have survived many RV weekends with just that. Enough said.
For someone taking longer trips, a powered refrigeration unit becomes desirable, This brings in the simpler thermoelectric/dual voltage 12V and 120V units at a few hundred dollars, and the more expensive compressor units at a thousand dollars or more for the better units. (The most efficient units are the built-in units, but that is not what we are discussing here.) If you have already invested in solar panels and batteries and their management system, then you might as well save money and get a thermoelectric unit. If you have not, and especially if you are taking long trips, then you might as well spend the money on a compressor unit rather than on the extra power generation and storage required for longer trips with a thermoelectric unit. That is unless you think you will have a use for the extra electric power for other things, and if you have not already purchased a compact gasoline generator for occasional use with hair dryers or toaster ovens etc.
Two cents please. Oh, alright, I'll take a penny.

[WillieC]

We went with a Pelican that we found on clearance in Bellingham a couple years back.

It was priced at half off 300% mark-up minus two years of shelf space supplanting other readily moving store products.

We went round and round, actually I read about others going round and round here...100A alternators, external regulators, golf cart batteries, smart plug shore power, solar power, lunar power, tidal power...

I ripped out the stock icebox with its newspaper insulation, built a simple enclosure to hold it, load it up with ice and go camping. We are rarely that far from civilization that we can’t get ice in four or five days. Close enough. I save the melt to flush the head periodically.

Works great so we got a smaller one for libations and frequently accessed cooler stuff. I’d much rather spend all my spare time rehabbing the 48 YO heater that may see one or two day’s usage all season, only to do it again next year due to light usage. Love our boat!

[Bob Noodat]

And frankly our Coleman 5 day cooler works well for us. It actually stays ice cold for a week if not disturbed too much. $95, and that's Canadian Piastres. I'm thinking down the road, for when we might be down the road for longer periods.

Thinking about this today has reminded me of our family's first camping refrigerator, in a British caravan, when I was a boy and Queen Victoria was getting very old and even shorter. It consisted of an aluminium chest with an insulated door. The chest was encased on the remaining five sides by about 3" of some lightweight and very porous concrete-type material. On the top surface it was dished, enough to hold a half pint or so of water at a time. When using it, you would regularly refill this dish, more frequently in hot weather. The water soaked into the porous shell, then evaporated in the heat, and the contents of the aluminium cabinet would stay cool enough to keep butter firm. Admittedly that was in a British summer, when 80 degrees is unusually hot, but the hotter it was, the better it seemed to work. Evaporative cooling, a marvellous natural phenomenon. Ah, I have even remembered the name, it was an OsoKool. And Googling it:

osokool.jpg

[motthediesel]

Very interesting Bob! I hadn't seen a cooler box like that, but it works on the same principle as a swamp cooler, like the ones they used to make for cars.



Ah yes, the "latent heat of evaporation" rides again!

Thanks for those links above too, I'm researching this same topic, as we want to add some kind of refridgeration to our A-27 as well. I'm also considering an LP/electric unit, but in that case the fridge would have to be mounted in the cockpit where it could be vented overboard. We have a Dometic unit of that type in our old Avion travel trailer, and I am amazed by how little gas is required to keep the beer cold and the ice in our gin and tonics.

Tom