Albin 25 tow vehicles in Europe

[DesertAlbin736]

Nick,

Regarding the Mini Loop, dates aren't yet set in stone and are subject to change, but probably leave here in latter half of June or early July. Could even be late July & on the water in early August. TBD. The 2,440 mile road trip from Phoenix to Brewerton will take us at least 7 or 8 days since we don't like to push it much more than 300 miles per day & certainly not more that 400 miles. As we get closer we'll continue monitor news & weather conditions and adjust timing accordingly. For one, from surfing YouTube we've seen that Ottowa has been hit with some serious spring flooding over the last couple years which could affect locks on the Rideau and the Ottowa River. Also Lock 7 on the Oswego, the last lock before the river empties into Lake Ontario, is undergoing a major refit this winter. As far as I've been able to determine, and I'm on the list of updates from the NY Canal Corporation, it's due to reopen on time at the end of May. But unforeseen delays could affect our timing. Years ago I used to live near Schenectady in NY & remember well the ice jams on the Mohawk River during spring thaw, so we don't want to start too early. I anticipate being on the water for up to two months through August & maybe into September. Would be nice to be there for fall colors, but the NY canals close for the season in mid October. Maybe I should start another thread on this?

These guys are my heroes. It's not that cold today, but forecasts for Saturday in Oswego (notorious for lake effect snow) is snow showers with high of 23 and low of 17.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QiM9cwojAs&t=39s

Welcome to climate change. Serious stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fvAblnqixI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7P3LiDb240

WillieC mentioned we had weighed our boat & trailer with the mast & boom being stowed on the trailer frame. That only added about 50 lbs or so. Also, the weight was measured with the 70 lb Boatex dinghy hanging off the stern. Our Desolation Sound cruise with WillieC in 2018 was probably the last time we'll use the sail rig. That was an experiment, and while it helped dampen the roll rate some it wasn't really worth the effort to it takes set up & take down.

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[Bob Noodat]

I like the idea of a small sail, as an auxiliary. I was thinking of a catboat-style gaff rig. Short mast near the bow, gaff and high boom. Self tacking with all control at the helm.

Guess I might need a boat first!

[DesertAlbin736]

We only ever used the mainsail alone, and even then only when there was a decent beam or broad reach breeze and motorsailed with the engine running. Jib/Genoa blocked too much of the view from the helm. Getting away from mast raising was the biggest reason for switching from sail to power in the first place.

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[motthediesel]

As a lifetime resident of the upper St Lawrence area, let me tell you that the flooding problems of last year will probably pale in comparison to what we have coming in 2020.

Lake Ontario and the River are at near all-time highs for this time of year, and that's true of the upper lakes as well. There are no controls between here and the upper lakes, so it's all heading our way.

On a positive note, I doubt that the high water will have much effect on the canals and locks leading into and out of the seaway system. Where difficulties might arise is at docking, launching, and other marina facilities. There again though, this will be the third year of flooding in the last four and shoreline businesses are adapting to this "new normal" reality.

Case in point, we are planning on installing a raised platform on the main 90' pier at our cottage rental business. We've added as many floating docks as we have room for over the last couple of years, but we can't continue to lose all those spaces on our fixed dock through the heart of our season. Besides, we have to have room for our Albin 27 now too

Speaking as a business owner though, please don't let a little extra gin-clear, sparkling water keep you away. The Thousand Islands area of the upper St Lawrence is one of the most beautiful cruising areas in the world. Our combination of clean water and pine covered granite gniess islands will make your Albin 25's feel like they're back in the Swedish Archipelago.

Oh, and on the subject of tow vehicles, count me in the "Cummins Crew". We're on our second now, a 2004 3500 dually 5 speed that replaced our 1994 D350 dually 5 speed. We loved our old one, but it died of rust even though the 5.9 was still perfect at 300K. As much as we liked "Old Blue" our current white "Moby Dodge" is a better truck in every way. I still can't believe it gets 24 mpg unloaded, and 15 mpg pulling our Avion camper, but it does. It hasn't tugged on our Albin yet, but it will.



Tom

[nebulatech]

I think I would try and find a trailer dealer at my destination and have a trailer ready bar the fine tuning.

I found my A25 just before Christmas last year, disabled and in the water. I was initially going to try and source a trailer where the boat was as well, but I thought about the time involved, and the pressure time can put on making a good financial decision. Instead, I decided to get a trailer locally. I couldn't find a good deal on CL or facebook marketplace, so I just started calling trailer shops. I found a used trailer, 3 years old, for an amazing price. It needed new lights and some brake work done. I did it myself and modified the trailer (I have a post about it, thanks to everyone for their advice, esp. DA who send me helpful drawings from which to get measurements). My thinking was I could get my money back out of the trailer if need be since I wasn't pressured into a more expensive option.

One question: about how far from the bow stop should the tandem axle centre be? The A25 I looked at last year was way too nose heavy;  it looked as if the axles needed to move forward a good foot.

The distance from the bow stop to the axle will depend on how high the bow stop is on the bow of the boat. The bow slopes aft as it goes down. It's also hard to figure the keel elevation at the front of the trailer because the keel isn't straight/level either. These all affect your measurements in determining bow stop placement.

My bow stop is now relatively high. I've seen bow stops relatively low (in pictures, here). When I picked up my boat, I ended up having to slide mine back, which I had anticipated. The included drawings below show my trailer layout when I left my house, along with the boat's lofting lines (courtesy DA). The bow stop is about 13' from the front axle. I ended up moving it back about a foot, but I also raised it some. Also I had to raise my bunks by 1.5" to accommodate my keel board. If you're going to outfit a trailer sight unseen, get in touch with me. We could video chat or anything I can do to help you out. My trailer rig is far from perfect, but it got her home safely 300+ miles.

Regarding the nose being heavy, if you're talking about the tongue weight, from what I have gathered, you want the engine sitting either on the front axle, or in-between them. That takes care of most of the weight. This boat weighs almost nothing without an engine. The rest seems fairly inconsequential, assuming the boat's not loaded with gear.

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[Bob Noodat]

Thank you very much nebulatech. Invaluable material. Do you have pictures of your trailer with and without boat, by any chance?

[nebulatech]

I took some fresh trailer pics, but they are too big. I have to downsize them tomorrow. I'll see if I have one of the trailer sans boat. If I do, it's likely before any modification.

[nebulatech]

Here are the fresh pics of the boat on the trailer:

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Here's the trailer, shortly after I bought it, unmodified I'm afraid:

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[Bob Noodat]

Thanks for those. So you kept the bunks but added the tilting rollers?

[nebulatech]

Thanks for those. So you kept the bunks but added the tilting rollers?

No, I haven't gone the roller route yet. I added a 12" wide keel board spanning the rear 3 or 4 crossmembers and a single bow roller in the front.

I'm not sure I'm going to do rollers. Several A25 trailers have curved bunks which match the contour of the hull. From what I have read, the curvature of the bunks in the stern can cause issues launching if the ramp is too shallow. I have a crazy idea, did I say crazy? I have a unique idea of making bunks which have a fixed curve in the front which contours the hull, and articulate in the rear. When "up", the rear of the bunks would contour the stern hull profile, but they could be lowered for ease of launching.

I still have to install my electric motor, rebuild the interior, rewire, plumb and paint, so trailer work is in my distant future.

[WillieC]

"I'm not sure I'm going to do rollers. Several A25 trailers have curved bunks which match the contour of the hull. From what I have read, the curvature of the bunks in the stern can cause issues launching if the ramp is too shallow. I have a crazy idea, did I say crazy? I have a unique idea of making bunks which have a fixed curve in the front which contours the hull, and articulate in the rear. When "up", the rear of the bunks would contour the stern hull profile, but they could be lowered for ease of launching."

My problem exactly. I have four bunks and launching on a shallow ramp is out of the question. I, too, am trying to come up with some kind of rear dropping bunk, but you need to be careful so the last cross member is well in the water, with enough buoyancy to float the stern before lowering the articulating rear. (There's a name for your rock band.) Then you have to come up with a simple, low-maintenance mechanism for lowering the back end of the bunks. In salt water. Hydraulics? Nah. Some kind of locking knee hinge that can be secured to not accidentally deploy. Operated by remote levers/linkage from the hitch area? Quickly? Have you been to a public launch lately? Yikes! I like your thinking. I'm listening.

[Bob Noodat]

Thanks for those. So you kept the bunks but added the tilting rollers?

No, I haven't gone the roller route yet. I added a 12" wide keel board spanning the rear 3 or 4 crossmembers and a single bow roller in the front.

I'm not sure I'm going to do rollers. Several A25 trailers have curved bunks which match the contour of the hull. From what I have read, the curvature of the bunks in the stern can cause issues launching if the ramp is too shallow. I have a crazy idea, did I say crazy? I have a unique idea of making bunks which have a fixed curve in the front which contours the hull, and articulate in the rear. When "up", the rear of the bunks would contour the stern hull profile, but they could be lowered for ease of launching.

I still have to install my electric motor, rebuild the interior, rewire, plumb and paint, so trailer work is in my distant future.

The Swedish guy in my first post just has rollers. He must have shares in a roller factory, but it looks good. I like rollers for the simple reason that with the right winch, a shallow ramp should not be a bother, which is what you are saying too.  Bunks contour well to the displacement hull, but you cannot drag a hull along them, so into the water you go until your trailer is pretty much submerged.

The problem with the Swedish guy's trailer and method, I think, is that the boat tips over the first set of yellow rollers both launching and retrieving, and that spindly rudder support looks so vulnerable to me. Imagine on the way up if your cable parted or the winch let go, I would think you could easily have a very expensive repair. If he went deeper in the water this would not be an issue. On the video they get a comment that they should go deeper into the water, but the guy writes that they've been doing it forever like that, and not getting the wheels in the water means the brakes don't have to be stripped down after each outing.

My crazy idea would be to have bunks that sat on struts that hinged. A threaded rod between struts could be tightened up to bring the bunks to bear on the hull for travel, or  loosened off to leave the hull just on rollers for launch and retrieval.

[nebulatech]

the articulating rear. (There's a name for your rock band.)

Sounds more like a hip-hop group to me!

You need to be careful so the last cross member is well in the water, with enough buoyancy to float the stern before lowering the articulating rear. Then you have to come up with a simple, low-maintenance mechanism for lowering the back end of the bunks. In salt water. Hydraulics? Nah. Some kind of locking knee hinge that can be secured to not accidentally deploy. Operated by remote levers/linkage from the hitch area? Quickly? Have you been to a public launch lately?

The knee hinge approach is in line with my current thinking. I'm more concerned with the actual bunk material, strength-wise. Plywood bends easily when you cut kerfs in it, but that greatly reduces its strength. Something like fiberglass may be better, though more difficult to fabricate. I'm thinking about something like sail battens but much thicker. I'm not sure why you would need to wait until the stern was floating before lowering the rear curvature. I retrieved the boat from the water without the added rear 2x4 supports in my picture. I had to put it back in a couple of times to get it on the keel board. This was all without a bow eye. I had imagined the bow eye and the weight of the boat on the straight part of the bunks would be enough to hold it in place until it floated. But I've only been to the ramp once since bringing it home, and that was to winch it up properly after I installed the bow eye. (I towed it 300+ miles home WITHOUT a bow eye, just 2 x 5000lb ratchet straps.)

WillieC, can you elaborate on your experience and why you feel the rear curvature would be necessary until the hull floats off the rear crossmember? I defer to your experience, and I'm all ears. I've built enough stupid things in my life based on assumptions and lack of real world experience. The more info the better.

My crazy idea would be to have bunks that sat on struts that hinged. A threaded rod between struts could be tightened up to bring the bunks to bear on the hull for travel, or  loosened off to leave the hull just on rollers for launch and retrieval.

I like the strut idea. This provides an alternative to hydraulics. I would think the threaded rod would require a long time to screw up/down though, depending on the thread pitch. Maybe something like an open rack and pinion gear would be faster. Keeping it open would allow you to frequently lubricate it with trailer bearing grease. The strength of the strut would help compensate for the necessary weakness in the flexible portion of the bunk board.

[WillieC]

All our trailers are so different. Mine has absolutely no keel support save for the front stop which mashes at the same point my bow eye locks into its cradle. I do have four bunks that nicely cradle the hull. Engine sits right over the axles. Works good, just not so handy to launch, which I only do a few times per season. Not a daily operation.

I caution against lowering the back of the bunks too soon because, in my case, with no keel rollers or boards, the keel would soon hit the rear cross member of the trailer. Unless the stern is floating.

My bunks have some kind of super duper hard slippery plastic that is da bomb for sliding. They snap over your plain old Home Despot 2X6. These 2X6s bend and conform nicely to the bulbous hull, they came with the trailer. If I had to replace them, they are not treated, just decent doug fir. 90% of HD lumber is already pre-bent so finding suitable replacements is no problem.

I'll post some pics later. Got a little explosion to take care of in the shop first, HA!

Serially, I am no expert on the trailer front, since I rarely use mine. Between DA and Mr. K., these guys are pros. Hear ye them. I am thinking I may try to obtain another cross member, shorten my bunks, and install some floppy rollers at the rear. While I am at it, I'll throw in another axle, spring for electric over hydraulic brakes, upgrade to stainless rotors and way better calipers, heck new spindles why not? I already added an electric wench (couldn't resist this misspell, since I am so mature.) In short, I'll buy a new trailer!

The outfit we bought ours from fired the guy we were dealing with within days of our taking possession. The backup, brake lockout solenoid valve, was faulty from day one, I mentioned it but didn't pursue it, my error. Went back, minutes after warranty expired...long sad story, but I don't deal with them any more. They should have been more insistent on building a more robust trailer. Careful who you deal with, do your homework, and be prepared to pay the freight. Do it right, not like me.

All trailers, if the boat sits on them in the off season, SHOULD, be relieved by lifting at least some of the weight off them. Boat jacks, keel blocks, sky hook, something. That's in the perfect world where I spend all my time, NOT. Unless your trailer is built like the proverbial brickhouse.

[Bob Noodat]

Puckboard is slippery and incredibly tough, will deform and bounce back, cheap per square foot but you have to buy 8x4 sheets. Could get away with the thinnest stuff though, 1/8" IIRC. I use it for all kinds of things. I have a piece 2'x8' that I slide under vehicles when working under them. You slip and slide around and the board wipes clean of anyything. .......Thinks: they have no idea what I am talking about.

I'd still prefer rollers to bunks for mount/dismount. As to the threaded rod and taking a while, well, maybe a minute or two, but you bring the boat off the ramp on rollers to the tie-down area and then there's no need to rush to get out of people's way while you screw in the bunks to conform to the hull.

You need to move to Canada. Very few people here except in the cities.

PS. Just thought, with my travel trailer leveller jacks, I use my cordless driver to adjust them in seconds. Just need a hex head on the threaded rod.