Albin 27 driveline variations

[tego]

Dave, My RPM/speeds are as follows: 800RPM@2.6kts,1000RPM@3.4kts,1500RPM@4.9kts,1700RPM@5.6kts,2000RPM@6.1kts,2300RPM@6.7kts,2500RPM@7.1kts,3000RPM@7.3kts. These were taken as averages for four runs up and down the river. The river current was less than 1/2 a knot. The speeds were GPS speeds. My tach is pretty accurate as I checked it with a photo tach about a year ago. My prop is not cupped. I have the Hurth 250-3R tranny with a 2.74 ratio. I think if I were going on a very long cruise, I'd increase the prop pitch to about 17" for better economy, although my fuel consumption is only about 3qts/hr . I know my engine is loafing along now, but it's running like a swiss watch. The only reason I'd repower is to give me more room in the ER for these old bones to squish into. I almost did repower a year ago but at the last minute cancelled because of a medical issue. I was going with the BETA 50 myself. Ben

[motthediesel]

The only reason I'd repower is to give me more room in the ER for these old bones to squish into. I almost did repower a year ago but at the last minute cancelled because of a medical issue. I was going with the BETA 50 myself. Ben

That is so true. I was amazed when I first looked at the Lehman/Peugeot by how BIG it is. I have a lot of experience with VW diesels, and the 2.1L Peugeot block is at least 30% bigger than a VW 1.9. I've rebuilt a number of 1.6 and 1.9L VW's, and I can pick a short block up with my hands. I'm not sure Andre the Giant could do that with the Peugeot.

In fact, a marine-ized, non-turbo VW would make a nice light and compact prime mover for one of these boats. It would also be handy to be able to get any part you needed at the nearest NAPA or Autozone.

Tom

[TorreyWP]

Here is our 1985 A27 set up:

Nissan LD28
Hurth HBW 250 (ZF 25M) transmission
1 1/4" shaft
No intermediate bearing
PSS dripless packing
18x17 4 blade prop

I would say there is no major vibration, its there but not intrusive. Cruising at 6-7 knots 1800-1900 RPM. We are on the upper Niagara river so we are often going against a 4-5 knot current. On lake or canal cruises 1800-1900 RPM gets us just over 8 knots with noticeably less laboring.

As part of my winter projects I took the drive line apart last week due to some suspected drive damper plate noise last summer. Transmission got sent out for new seals and clutches preventatively while out. Indeed, I found several broken springs on the damper plate, glad I got after it!

At this time I will also service the PSS with their maintenance kit. Now I need to decide weather or not to drop the rudder and pull the shaft all the way out and do a new cutlass bearing, last record of replacement was 15 years ago, no play or indication that its is worn though....

I thought I would start a new topic on the damper plate and getting to it. I am worried about being able to find the right plate as it is engine flywheel and transmission specific. The transmission shop is going to help so I will post some more about that project.

[motthediesel]

From this limited sampling, it looks like either a 1-1/2" shaft, or an intermediate bearing on the smaller one can be recommended. So I guess I'm going to add the extra support. Here's the SS 1-1/4" shaft bearing I ordered.



I looked it over, and pulling the fuel tank doesn't look like too bad of a job. There are some panels to remove, but they are just screwed in. Then, 12 screws hold it down at the corners, and I think they can be gotten to. Unfortunately, our tank is 3/4 full of fuel, so I've ordered a 10gpm 12v transfer pump for the job. I'm thinking that might be a handy thing to keep on board anyway. I can pump my tank out into a plastic drum, and then pump it back in after the job, filtering it twice in the process. I'll examine the tank too, inside and out, so it will not be wasted work.

After that, it will be a matter of glassing in a plywood plate, then lining up the bearing. with the cutless and the stuffing box. But the first hurdle will be pulling off that old Federal flex coupling. If I can pull it aside or up enough to get a puller on it, OK. If not, it could get ugly.

Tom

[sailonset]

Not been spelunking since you posted this question. Don't think our 27 has a mid-shaft support, but this might explain what I felt on our sea trial in Portland Harbor. At 6-7 knots, the Yanmar quietly purred and all was smooth. As we powered up to 8 knots and above, there was definitely vibration and all was less pleasant. Need to investigate the prop sizing. Good to know that she really can head quietly towards 10 knots.

[motthediesel]

As we powered up to 8 knots and above, there was definitely vibration and all was less pleasant. Need to investigate the prop sizing. Good to know that she really can head quietly towards 10 knots.

Do you know what diameter prop shaft you have? All of the respondents so far who have the bigger 1-1/2” shaft report smooth runnings. I can’t speak for anyone else, but our unsupported 1-1/4” shaft equipped boat shakes like a wet dog.

Tom

[jumpjet]

MD--2000 miles completed on Great Loop; 4000 to go. Vibration between 1 and 2 at cruise of 1850 RPM, which gives 7 MPH. 2500 RPM too loud and shaky at 9 mph.

1988 FC with Yanmar 4jh-dte 77 hp, turbo/inter-cooled with 1.5 inch shaft direct from tranny to stuffing box/prop. Federal equi-poise: 18RH14
10 87 propeller.

I have pretty good fuel numbers after 2000 miles and a loaded boat w/2 pax and live aboard gear/food/water/dinghy etc. If anyone interested email me or text @ 4178481316
Steve
https://aroundtheloopwego.blogspot.com

[Bob Noodat]

Speaking in general terms, since I have not even seen an A27 in the flesh. Have you checked to see if your prop itself is balanced? With no intermediate bearing especially, that could be the whole problem. Please excuse me if this is a stupid question.

[Bob Noodat]

Well, that comment seemed to kill this thread off.
So, either it was so incredibly obtuse that everyone went off in disgust, or possibly they are all just embarrassed that they didn't think of it themselves.
Hmm.
Guess I'll never know.
But I'll assume it's the latter.

[motthediesel]

Ha ha, no Bob, prop balance too was a distinct possibility! I have done a good bit more work on the driveline now and I should update this thread. It involves V-blocks, dial gauges, and even some hammering -- great fun!

Tom

[coolchange]

I'll play...27fc with 1.5 in shaft, no bearing, no vibration...I do have a special vibration reducing coupling tween the trans and the shaft..the PO did this so I don't know what it may have been like prior

I'll add that my fuel tanks are port and starboard (40gal ea) so do not cover the shaft...and also I do not know anything about the prop cept it was tuned just before I got the boat and (so far) I have not hit anything with it

[DesertAlbin736]

Coolchange says,

I'll play...27fc with 1.5 in shaft, no bearing, no vibration...I do have a special vibration reducing coupling between the trans and the shaft..the PO did this so I don't know what it may have been like prior

Just throwing out a WAG, but I think that could make some difference all other things being equal & in proper alignment. It's somewhat apples vs oranges comparing A27 to A25, but our AquaDrive CV (also inherited from PO) thrust bearing/CV joints makes our boat with Yanmar 3GM30F run virually vibration free cruising at 2,350 RPM with the engine "floating" on soft mounts and all the prop thrust absorbed & transmitted to the hull via the thrust bearing. It's a sweet little unit.

Aqua Drive.jpg

[DCatSea]

Just reinstalled the "old" 15x11 prop after having it reconditioned by Keith Gunther in Edgewater MD. Some electrolysis present but not enough to warrant replacement; certainly good for a couple or three more years. Keith retipped and balanced it, gave it a good cleaning and polishing and made me a happy camper for a very reasonable cost. I'll post pix of my drive line next week after I replace the shaft zinc.

[motthediesel]

Wow Doug -- a 15x11? How many revs at a 7kt cruising speed with that?

I am amazed by the wide variety of props that folks use on these boats. Yours has the same engine as mine, and I assume the same Hirth (about 2.7/1 I think?) gearbox, but ours was turning an enormous 19x12 when we got it. You would never see such a huge difference in props on identical boats with planing hulls.

With that big wheel we could do about 7.2kts at 1800 rpm. I never opened it up, but I would be surprised if it could make 2200 at WFO. And I'm sure even that would have been accompanied with black smokescreen like a WW2 destroyer squadron. We're going to try a 16x16 now (I had one left over from a previous project) and see how that does. We will have an exhaust gas temperature gauge now, so we should have a good idea about how much load we are putting on the old Frenchman. I do like keeping the revs down at cruising speed, but I don't want to overload it either.

Tom

[Bob Noodat]

Tom, my ignorance is complete on prop characteristics. Is there a good ready reference that explains prop numbers and how boat hull type and size may be matched to engine, to prop and to anticipated peformance?