Anchors

[derekja]

I don't want to start a religious anchor war, but I'm unhappy with my anchor and would love feedback on my plan to upgrade.

My new-to-me Albin 25 currently has an 11 pound Bruce as it's main anchor. While this is technically within the guidelines for that anchor it feels frighteningly undersized. Particularly since there is only about 8 feet of chain on an otherwise 1/2" nylon rode. (https://www.anchoring.com/pages/bruce-c ... zing-chart)

My intended usage is for fairly remote anchorages around the Broughton archipelago and mid-BC coastal areas, so I need to be pretty self-sufficient and able to feel secure if something big blows up before I can get to a perfect anchorage.

I am currently planning to upgrade to a 10kg Rocna. I'll have to make a bit of bow roller adjustment to accommodate, but it seems feasible. I have a Horizon 400 windlass on the boat, which I think constrains me to 1/4" chain and 1/2" rode. This feels somewhat undersized, but not disastrously so and I am reluctant to change out the windlass right now.

A solution to the concern is to add more chain to the setup, but I'm not sure how much or what type. The windlass accommodates 1/4" BBB or Grade 40. I guess grade 40 is now called grade 43 in the catalogue, but is still an ISO short link so should fit the windlass OK. The catalogue (looking at http://www.marinecatalogue.ca/329, btw) doesn't list any ACCO BBB 1/4' chain, but does list a short link G30 chain that is $338 for a 141' pail. This has a working load of 1300 pounds and weighs .75 pounds per foot, so about 105 pounds for the 141' of chain. I'd then run a couple hundred feet of 1/2" after that just to have enough scope for those just-in-case situations. An alternative would be to go to the grade 43 high test, which would give me a 2600 pound safe working load. At about 2.5 times the cost.

The question is whether that is more weight than I want up front? Would going less chain make more sense?

Is the high test justified?

Is the primary anchor selection a good one?

If you have any input on these questions (or other things I haven't thought about) I'd love to hear! Also love to see any nice chain locker solutions. I'm not entirely happy with the fact that it is up high and open to the sleeping area. That is the one place I have any mold. So I'm considering enclosing that area and running the chain storage lower down.

Thanks,

Derek

[nebulatech]

Hi Derek!

New A25 owner myself, its still on the trailer, un-powered, so I can't weigh in on first hand experience, but here are my thoughts from prior cruising:

1. - I agree the anchor is small. a 25' boat is on the high side of the scale you linked to. It's probably fine for a picnic, but not for holding in a middle of the night squall. Since you have a windlass, why not go with the 20lb (or equivalent)? At the end of the day (pun), you want to sleep soundly knowing your boat is well secured.

2. - The working load of 2,600 lbs on your chain is not paired well to that of your 1/2" line. Consulting the charts in Earl Hinz's "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" ( C 1986 ), page 129, table 5-8 "matching combination rode components, 1/2" 3 strand nylon pairs to 5/16" chain (breaking loads of 6,400 and 7.600 lbs respectively). Breaking load is NOT safe working load, btw. See image below listing breaking load of 1/4" galvanized chain as 5,000lbs. (Though I've never experienced or seen chain break at an anchorage)

anchor-rode-pairing.jpg

3. -If it were me I would like to have more chain, 20' - 30' at least. This gives a better catenary, not only helping your anchor stay put but reducing the yawing on the bow when the wind pipes up.

4. - Weight consideration - I don't think there is enough positive flotation in the bow to allow for a141' of chain, let alone room (allowing for a 12" drop from your hause pipe) but I could be mistaken on both counts.

5. - Swivels - bear in mind they have about 1/2 the breaking strength of the rode or chain. Good place to go over-sized.

6. - I'm not experienced with the Rocna anchor, but it looks like a cross between a Bruce and a CQR. I'm a fan of the CQR. I like the bell hoop on the Rocna. For rocky/coral bottoms you could add a 10' retrieval line with some positive flotation.

7. - Intended conditions - Again referring to Hinz's book (paraphrased), "A 60 knot squall exerts 4 times the force on your anchoring system as a 30 knot squall." Do you plan to be where you may be caught out in a 60 knot gale?

8. - Just in case situations - I've met cruisers who have rode out Cat 1 hurricanes on the hook. They typically deploy two anchors; their main anchor and a storm anchor. Of course the danger is if one comes loose, the other has to carry the whole burden and depending on the arrangement the 2nd anchor may pull free. Also, please don't take my mention of two anchors as an endorsement for a stern anchor. I was taught there is no place for a stern anchor. Great way to swamp a boat.

I hope some of my drivel proves useful to you.

[dkirsop]

I have 95' of 1/4" chain and 200' of 1/2" rode with an 8kg (18lb ) bruce anchor. We spent on night at anchor in a 70kt gale and it held well. I try to avoid such conditions but sometimes such conditions come to you.

You will find anchorages north of Campbell River can be quite deep so I wouldn't use anything less in terms of length. We towed our A25 up to Port McNeill and spent a pleasant 2 weeks cruising the Broughtons. I highly recommend it.

Mom and twins.jpg

Mom and the kids looking for sushi along the shore of Minstrel Island.

[DesertAlbin736]

We use a 10 kg (22 lb) Bruce & 26 ft of 3/8th chain + 275 ft of 5/8 3 strand nylon rode (300 ft total) inherited from PO. Rarely run out more than 150 ft , & so far have not had problems.

Dave K, I'm jealous! We didn't get to see any Griz up in Desolation even though we packed bear spray just in case.

Note to all A25 guys with trailers: The Pacific NW/Inside Passage/San Juans/Gulf Islands/Sunshine Coast should be on everyone's bucket list. You would be blown away!

[dkirsop]

The grizzlies have only just started to seek out territory in the Broughtons and northern Vancouver Island. We were lucky to spot this trio and were able to get quite close to the shore as the channel deepened quickly and the A25 has a shallow draft. The Discovery Islands, where Desolation Sound is, are still mostly black bear and it is usually possible to see one on the beach. They may have been higher up the hillsides foraging for berries when you were there. Maybe I will put some photos and text on the cruising link once I get some time this month.

[WillieC]

OK, Mr. K! We need to hear all about this trip! Time for a new thread when you get home.

[Ben423]

I think the arguments regarding the Rocna/Manson type anchors versus the plow type anchors have been settled. One only has to look at the vast number of used CQR, Danforth and Delta type anchors on sale at marine swap meets to confirm that. I agree that an 11 lb anchor would not be conducive to a good night's sleep. A Rocna 10 (22lb) would be a better anchor for all-around performance and I wouldn't settle for a lighter one. Given the size of your boat, 1/4" G4 chain and 1/2" rode would be plenty strong enough to handle anything short of extreme conditions if that combination matches the gypsy on your windlass. A minimum amount of chain would be twice the length of your boat or 50'. Unless you're planning to do long distance cruising where your rope rode could be damaged by coral or rocks, you don't need an all-chain rode. Regarding swivels, they're okay but not necessary unless you're anchoring where winds or tidal flows reverse frequently. And as has already been mentioned, they will invariably be the weak link (no pun intended) in your ground tackle. We use a Rocna 10 with 1/4" G4 chain (100') and 250' of 1/2" nylon rode on our 28 TE and anchor in waters varying between 20 and 80' deep. In rocky areas a buoyed trip line on your anchor comes in handy.

One final note, the anchor locker on the 28 is about 2 feet deep. When raising the anchor the chain will pile up and jam the windlass if I don't pay attention and knock down the 'castle' as the chain comes in.

[derekja]

Thanks so much for your thoughts, everyone! I'm really pleased that this didn't devolve into an anchor model war like I've seen happen on so many other boards. Speaks well for this community

I'm going to go with the rocna and 50' or so of G4 chain and the rest 1/2" nylon.

Thanks!

Derek

[DesertAlbin736]

Ben423

Glad to hear from someone homeported in Two Harbors. Been there a few times, last time in July, 2017 on a run out from Huntington Beach.

DSCN3793.JPG

[Ben423]

Ben423

Glad to hear from someone homeported in Two Harbors. Been there a few times, last time in July, 2017 on a run out from Huntington Beach.

DSCN3793.JPG

Between September and May you’ll often see our 28TE on mooring J-10, just outside the string line. Drop by next time you’re in the neighborhood.

[DesertAlbin736]

Thanks! I would, but no plans to this year. Other big summer cruise plans in the works but don't want to hijack this thread to go into it. Suffice to say it has to do with a long road trip, rivers, lakes, & canals with locks.

[NickScheuer]

I'm very partial toward the Bruce, ever since the builder of my first cruising sailboat, Peter Duff, always sold Bruce with his boats (he was Scotish, like Bruce), though must agree that yours seems too small. I use only about 8' of chain and have never had a problem. Personally, I would not want to carry any more weight than maybe 20' of chain. You want it to be galvanized, of course, not cadmium plated.

[nebulatech]

We spent on night at anchor in a 70kt gale and it held well...

You will find anchorages north of Campbell River can be quite deep so I wouldn't use anything less in terms of length.

Woah that's some challenging conditions! It seems that many A25's are in higher latitudes. I've done most of my cruising in the lower latitudes where the winds aren't as high (excepting hurricanes) and the anchorages are shallower. You have me rethinking what is a prudent length of chain.

I think the arguments regarding the Rocna/Manson type anchors versus the plow type anchors have been settled.

I previously stated I was a huge fan of the CQR. Your statement spurred me to do some research. WOW, the Rocna is a well thought out, high performing anchor. I'll be getting one of those with an undetermined length of chain for my primary. I plan to build a bowsprit. I'm curious, can anyone with a windlass post pics of their installation? There's not a lot of space on the foredeck forward of the chain locker. I'm puzzled over the proper layout to accommodate the windlass, hawsepipe and cleat(s). Thanks!

[DesertAlbin736]

I'm going to go with the Rocna and 50' or so of G4 chain and the rest 1/2" nylon.

I don't think you can go wrong with that setup. A powered windlass? Must be nice! Closest thing we have to a windlass is a hand cranked sailboat sheet winch on the bowsprit which only works with the rope portion of the rode. Once it gets to the last 26 feet of chain & 22 lb anchor it's all pulled up by hand. Regarding length of chain obviously more is always better, but just consider the weight you're adding to the bow. Don't forget, a full fresh water tank up in the bow also adds 50 kg of weight.

Another addition to consider for the cruising you're planning is carrying a reel of floating poly stern tie line, as you're sure to run into a few situations where there's a steep to shore and/or crowded anchorage.

Like for instance here in Tod Inlet behind Butchart Gardens

DSCN4889.JPG

Or here in Teakerne Arm, Desolation Sound

DSCN4226R.jpg

WillieC, stern tie anchored in Tenedos Bay, Desolation Sound, 7/5/18. You can see here what happens when the tide is out.

DSCN4286 (1280x960).jpg

Speaking of which Rick (WillieC), who can be seen on shore in the first picture below wearing a blue shirt, was a huge help in running a stern tie line ashore for some friends of ours who came along with their Alden 44 sloop (at right in this photo, click on it for full screen view). After all was settled in the six of us had a little party aboard the Alden.

DSCN4277 (1280x960).jpg

DSCN4271.JPG

So what boat did you get? We've seen a number of BC Albins up there with the Albineer club & elsewhere.

[DesertAlbin736]

I think the arguments regarding the Rocna/Manson type anchors versus the plow type anchors have been settled. One only has to look at the vast number of used CQR, Danforth and Delta type anchors on sale at marine swap meets to confirm that.

From what I've read the CQR is the least desirable of those three. As a swap meet bargain of those three types the Delta would first choice, then the Danforth (or clone) as a backup/secondary anchor or for sand & hard mud. Besides our 10kg Bruce main anchor my secondary/spare/backup anchor is an 18 lb Danforth clone with 6 feet of chain with a total of 120 feet of rode. A lot depends one's particular cruising ground & predominate bottom type.