A25 limber holes: Engine compartment and others

[nebulatech]

Hi all!

I drained the bilge of my new A25 today, but there was still some water trapped on the starboard side of the engine well. The boat sits a little bow-down on the trailer, but I would still expect this to drain. It's full of trash and I assume there are some clogged limber holes. Does anyone have any intel or any pictures handy?

While we're at it, might be a good place to add some pictures of other limber hole locations. I searched the forums for "limber hole" and found WillieC's thread regarding water trapped in his head compartment. As I go through the boat, I'll add pictures I take of limber hole locations as well.

Yuck! Here's what the water looks like, post pumping (my little Rule wouldn't bottom out):

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[WillieC]

I think both sides of the engine are supposed to drain forward and then dump into the bilge just forward of the wall. Then it drains to the rear in the one inch pipe that runs under the engine pan. The holes are just to each side of the front of the engine. One of mine is thoroughly plugged, the starboard side. Thanks for the reminder to address it.

I'd prime that sucker and crank the hand starter! Should go! HA!

[nebulatech]

Interestingly, there were two hand starters in the boat. Never thought of that, but how the bleep do you get the handle in there?

OK, I'm going to run out and look for those holes. Thanks Willie!

[DesertAlbin736]

Hoooweeee! Wowser! You weren't kidding about a restoration project! What does the rest of it look like? That engine (missing 2 of the 3 intake air horns) would make an excellent mooring anchor. The idea with the engine bed is to keep it completely isolated from the bilge so any oil leaks don't end up being pumped overboard. Methinks you'll be busy for a while. But fear not, there is a jewel hidden within that diamond in the rough.

You will note in the exploded view line drawing how the vents go from the sides of the engine bay aft and up to the deck openings behind the aft cabin (dotted lines). Also the passive Beckson vent-o-mate vent in the forward starboard corner of the front cabin roof does not go directly straight down into the cabin but runs along a hollowed out channel in the roof layup back to the head compartment.

AlbinCutawayViewLine2.jpg

Among other things, from your initial night time photos it appears there was no enclosure over the back half of the cockpit. So was this open to the weather all along, or did they have a tarp over it? If so that leaves you with a number of options down the road, whether to leave it open, add a simple bimini, or full canvas enclosure, or build a hard top to extend all the way to the aft cabin. Lots of idea examples with a google image search.

[nebulatech]

Thanks WillieC! I found both the starboard and port limber holes. I believe Ialso found the pipe. About 12" aft of the floor access in the forward cabin, right on the keel? If that's it, I ran a 2' wire up it, and it must be clogged. I went back on deck, and abaft the engine "bed" was a bunch of muck - leaves and what I assume to be more decomposed leaves bound in the lovely bilge sludge. It probably coats the entire upper bilge under the engine bed. That's going to be fun! I ordered a gallon of bilge cleaner earlier today. Stupid stupid stupid. Always the optimist, I should have ordered 6 of them!

Hoooweeee! Wowser! You weren't kidding about a restoration project! What does the rest of it look like?

Rough.

I'm removing the vinyl liner, which was moldy, and stripping the glue away. I plan to remove the furniture and paint it white, then reinstall the furniture (for restoration later). Eventually, to dress out the walls, I will install some vertical teak spacers and some 2.5" tall x 3/8" thick horizontal planks (cypress painted white) with about 1/4 inch spacing to brighten up the cabin space.

One thing I can say is the layup gets more solid the farther forward you go. As it should be.

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The idea with the engine bed is to keep it completely isolated from the bilge so any oil leaks don't end up being pumped overboard.

When did that ever work? Of course, I'm coming from a sailboat background...

You will note in the exploded view line drawing how the vents go from the sides of the engine bay aft and up to the deck openings behind the aft cabin (dotted lines). Also the passive Beckson vent-o-mate vent in the forward starboard corner of the front cabin roof does not go directly straight down into the cabin but runs along a hollowed out channel in the roof layup back to the head compartment.

Thank you for the drawing. You're a continuing source of great material, DA! That's very interesting about the vent-o-mate. I've never seen that, but it explains a lot, and is very a clever design, so long as water doesn't get trapped and cause delamination.

Among other things, from your initial night time photos it appears there was no enclosure over the back half of the cockpit. So was this open to the weather all along, or did they have a tarp over it? If so that leaves you with a number of options down the road, whether to leave it open, add a simple bimini, or full canvas enclosure, or build a hard top to extend all the way to the aft cabin. Lots of idea examples with a google image search.

I believe it was mostly open to the weather. There was a bimini, and I have the frames and the tattered remains of the canvas. I'm planning to make a mock-up from some tarp and duct tape (just to make the neighbors smile), and then make a new bimini from Sunbrella. Sometime in the next two years, I will make a hard top similar to yours. Much to do in the interim.

[DesertAlbin736]

I believe it was mostly open to the weather. There was a bimini, and I have the frames and the tattered remains of the canvas. I'm planning to make a mock-up from some tarp and duct tape (just to make the neighbors smile), and then make a new bimini from Sunbrella. Sometime in the next two years, I will make a hard top similar to yours. Much to do in the interim.

Coming from sailing I would guess you're familiar with Sailrite.com. Great source for Sunbrella canvas, DIY supplies, and how to videos including how to make patterns for biminis. When you reach that point investing in a heavy duty walking foot sewing machine can save 100s of $$.

Here's what the inside of our cabin looks like after PO re-did the cushions in blue, repainted the overhead & cabin trunk & installed new white leather textured naugahide on the sides (ceilings in proper nautical speak). Pay no mind to the clutter. We were in long term cruising mode when this was taken. The mini blinds & blue curtains were a nice touch added by the PO. Partly reason for the high purchase price. At the time there were only a couple other A25's on the market, one in Texas & the other in Florida. Was a big dent in the pocketbook, but saved us a lot of work. A number of things were added/updated since we got the boat. New LED ceiling light fixtures in main cabin, new VHF & Chartplotter, new Garhauer lifting dinghy davits & new Gig Harbor hard shell dink. Last year I made new driver seat cushions, raised the height of the backrest & added a couple inches to the depth of the seat to make it more comfortable, & new bench seat cushions. Plus repainting the topsides last spring. Never ends, but very satisfying when done.

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You can buy personallized Abin 25 gear (coffee mugs, T shirts, throw pillows, Albin logo log books and much more) online from zazzle.com. All designed & marketed by Canadian owners of the A25 "Transition" who we met last summer at the Albin rendezous in Ladysmith

Transition.jpg

https://www.zazzle.com/s/albin+25

ablin mug.jpg

Bought a used Thompson Mini Walker machine. Sailrite machines are uprated clones of the Thompson

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We sewed new enclosure canvas ourselves, added modifications to the original stock design.

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[WillieC]

Sounds like you found all the limber holes and the pipe under the bilge. It is a solid pipe so it will clear with enough rodding. Stay with it!

[nebulatech]

Sounds like you found all the limber holes and the pipe under the bilge. It is a solid pipe so it will clear with enough rodding. Stay with it!

Imagine a straw with a wad of chewing gum stuck at the end. I think that's what's happened. All the paste-like muck behind and under the engine bed is the problem. Fun fun fun.

[WillieC]

Throw in decomposing leaves and you've got quite a stew there. That tube under the engine is pretty much a straight shot. You ought to be able to rod it out from the front.

[ssrig]

Don’t forget the thread I started on those holes! Here http://www.albinowners.net/aog/viewtopi ... 28&t=11273

There are pictures that you can enlarge and a bit of a write up of what I found down there. The pan in the head drains aft into the area just starboard of the engine pan, there are two holes in that location, the port hole drains into the forward bilge and the starboard hole is the drain from the head pan, I have seen on a few A25’s where this is blocked by sealant and added construction for batteries and holding tanks. One or two of mine were plugged with sediment that I cleared with a piece of wire.

[nebulatech]

Thanks ssrig,

Those pics are very helpful!

I'm just about ready to scoop, scrape, scrub and bleach the bilge. Does anyone have partiality to a brand of bilge paint?

[WillieC]

I scraped, etc. etc. then used purple generic degreaser followed with hot water rinse, repeat as necessary then primed with Zinnser 123. Follow with one or two coats of gray bilgekoat interlux.

It worked so good in the bilge, I used the same paint for the boot stripe just above the bottom paint and the high gunwale stripe as well. And the swim platform over two coats of leftover two part barrier coat. I was concerned about uv stability outside but no issue.

I left the under engine pan bare fiberglass (I had the engine out, A25). I didn’t think I could get it clean enough for paint to stick and I didn’t want flakes of gray paint floating around in all that normal Volvo Penta engine excreta. As tough as that paint sticks on the rest of the bilge, it would probably be fine.

[nebulatech]

Hi All!

I'm back to these limber holes. I want to paint the bilge, but my port side drain is clogged. I've run a coat hanger down as far as I can, and it matches up length-wise, pretty close with the starboard side, which is not clogged. After some research, I tried pouring Draino into the hole. This did produce a blackish plume, but after 30 minutes, it's still clogged. There's a good chance I have a rusted bolt or something in that hole, and since Draino is safe on metal, Draino wouldn't resolve that type of clog.

I'm looking for advice for next steps. Some of my ideas are below. Please give your thoughts on any of these ideas, or your own (My A25 is the deluxe version, if it matters):

1.) Find the other end and try to run a wire/coat hanger from that side. WillieC has mentioned that he found the outlet hole in the bilge area by the galley. So far, I've only found one pipe, maybe 1/2 inch, under there. I think this is the pipe leading aft of the engine pan. It's possible that the port and starboard drains tap into this.

2.) Buy a bore scope or other camera meant to go inside small pipes and see if I can find out what's going on

3.) Use compressed air to try to clear the clog (I don't think this will work since Draino didn't...)

4.) Cut an inspection hole in the motor pan (motor currently removed) to see if I can find the pipe. Not sure how this would help...

5.) Drill a new hole for a new drain. May require option 4 as well...

[Dieselram94]

Can you buy a magnet on a telescoping wand that will reach in there? Even if it can’t remove what’s in there, if it tries to stick to it at least you know it’s something like a bolt.

[tribologist]

Can you post some pictures? I'm confused. Mine has just short holes in the front corners to train into the engine bed then a small hole in the front center but we have a pre-delux.