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Bringing her home
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Bringing her home
The day had finally come for us to run our boat back from Kingston Ontario to our bay in Northern NY. (If interested in the ins and outs of importation, see my post in the "General" forum) We picked a day that looked OK in the forecast, light NE winds, overcast, but not much chance of rain.
My brother gave us a ride over, and by 8:15 we were aboard. After a quick "pre-flight" check, we put the clutch in neutral, gave it 1/4 throttle, 5 seconds of glow plug, (as recommended by the PO) and hit the starter. The old French rattler clattered to life with a considerable cloud of carbon smoke. (I've already scheduled an injector rebuild/calibration at my diesel shop )
After a bit of time for warm up, it cleaned up nicely, and we let go lines and headed out into the fairway. Trying to familiarize myself with the new electronics package, I was immediately surprised to see that the Garmin charts gave no information at all on the route we intended to take, the narrow Bateau Channel north of Howe Island, wonder why? I was very happy that we had brought our St Lawrence River chart book as well. We have been this route before, but not in many years.
As we headed NE along the channel we were amused to see a local school bus heading to the mainland on the cable ferry -- interesting bus ride for those lucky kids! The engine ran great, if a little loud, and we pottled along nicely at 1800 RPM doing about 7.2 kts over ground. Current with us here, but probably not very strong in this backwater. After a time we made the turn north at the end of Howe, slipped through the narrow channel at the Spectacles Shoal and cruised past Gananague. Then across an open reach to the needles eye of Gananaque Narrows.
From there on we were into what we consider our home waters, channels we know and have traveled for years. In due time we entered the strong currents just upstream of the Canadian Span of the Thousand Islands Bridge. Amusing to watch the GPS show up to 8.7 kts as the swirling water carried us into one of the most beautiful parts of this river.
Under the high span, into the wide Canadian Channel past Rockport, then into US waters to Alex Bay for our arranged meeting with the CBP Officer to clear us in. We raised the yellow quarantine flag and headed for the dock. After that, and a quick lunch to celebrate, it was back into the boat for the remaining 5 miles downstream to Pine Bay, our home port.
So, we've made our first passage in the Albin 27FC, and it was a good one. We like it very much, but have a few things we want to attend to before next year, and some changes to make. We want to install a "Natures Head" -- we have one in our camper and love it. When we take out the holding tank, I plan to replace it with a "day" or running fuel tank, probably of 20 gallons or so. The number one priority though will be sound proofing. My I-phone meter showed 83db at the helm at cruising speed -- way too loud for us.
We have already been helped by many here, as we have studied the achieved posts and they have been invaluable to us. I hope as time goes by we can add some helpful posts of our own to the collection.
Tom
My brother gave us a ride over, and by 8:15 we were aboard. After a quick "pre-flight" check, we put the clutch in neutral, gave it 1/4 throttle, 5 seconds of glow plug, (as recommended by the PO) and hit the starter. The old French rattler clattered to life with a considerable cloud of carbon smoke. (I've already scheduled an injector rebuild/calibration at my diesel shop )
After a bit of time for warm up, it cleaned up nicely, and we let go lines and headed out into the fairway. Trying to familiarize myself with the new electronics package, I was immediately surprised to see that the Garmin charts gave no information at all on the route we intended to take, the narrow Bateau Channel north of Howe Island, wonder why? I was very happy that we had brought our St Lawrence River chart book as well. We have been this route before, but not in many years.
As we headed NE along the channel we were amused to see a local school bus heading to the mainland on the cable ferry -- interesting bus ride for those lucky kids! The engine ran great, if a little loud, and we pottled along nicely at 1800 RPM doing about 7.2 kts over ground. Current with us here, but probably not very strong in this backwater. After a time we made the turn north at the end of Howe, slipped through the narrow channel at the Spectacles Shoal and cruised past Gananague. Then across an open reach to the needles eye of Gananaque Narrows.
From there on we were into what we consider our home waters, channels we know and have traveled for years. In due time we entered the strong currents just upstream of the Canadian Span of the Thousand Islands Bridge. Amusing to watch the GPS show up to 8.7 kts as the swirling water carried us into one of the most beautiful parts of this river.
Under the high span, into the wide Canadian Channel past Rockport, then into US waters to Alex Bay for our arranged meeting with the CBP Officer to clear us in. We raised the yellow quarantine flag and headed for the dock. After that, and a quick lunch to celebrate, it was back into the boat for the remaining 5 miles downstream to Pine Bay, our home port.
So, we've made our first passage in the Albin 27FC, and it was a good one. We like it very much, but have a few things we want to attend to before next year, and some changes to make. We want to install a "Natures Head" -- we have one in our camper and love it. When we take out the holding tank, I plan to replace it with a "day" or running fuel tank, probably of 20 gallons or so. The number one priority though will be sound proofing. My I-phone meter showed 83db at the helm at cruising speed -- way too loud for us.
We have already been helped by many here, as we have studied the achieved posts and they have been invaluable to us. I hope as time goes by we can add some helpful posts of our own to the collection.
Tom
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 2777
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:58 pm
- Home Port: Peoria, AZ USA
Re: Bringing her home
Tom,
Awesome! Love your description & following it along on Google Maps. Hope we get to see you next year! About the Garmin charts, that was a concern of mine too. We have a Garmin 741xs & was concerned I might have to spring for some add on chart memory cards ($$!). But I panned the pre-loaded charts over all those locations we're thinking about next year, Erie and Oswego Canals, Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence, the Rideau, Ottowa River, Richelieu, Lake Champlain, Champlain Canal, Hudson & Mohawk Rivers, and they're all there, nav bouys, depth contours, etc. The only thing it's not up to date on is marinas since some noted on the charts are closed & out of business like one down in Mechanicville, NY. I always like to have paper charts along anyway, so any advice on those would be helpful.
View upstream from Thousand Islands Bridge (Google maps) View downstream from Thousand Islands Bridge (Google maps) Skipper & Admiral at English Camp, San Juan Island, WA 2019
Awesome! Love your description & following it along on Google Maps. Hope we get to see you next year! About the Garmin charts, that was a concern of mine too. We have a Garmin 741xs & was concerned I might have to spring for some add on chart memory cards ($$!). But I panned the pre-loaded charts over all those locations we're thinking about next year, Erie and Oswego Canals, Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence, the Rideau, Ottowa River, Richelieu, Lake Champlain, Champlain Canal, Hudson & Mohawk Rivers, and they're all there, nav bouys, depth contours, etc. The only thing it's not up to date on is marinas since some noted on the charts are closed & out of business like one down in Mechanicville, NY. I always like to have paper charts along anyway, so any advice on those would be helpful.
View upstream from Thousand Islands Bridge (Google maps) View downstream from Thousand Islands Bridge (Google maps) Skipper & Admiral at English Camp, San Juan Island, WA 2019
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La Dolce Vita
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:05 am
- Home Port: Long Cove Marina, Chester River Maryland
Re: Bringing her home
Sounds like a great trip. I have the same engine. You must have something different then me. I'm running about 6.5 to 7.0 knots at 2500 rpm and 87 decibels. I thought I did good sound deadening to. If you want to discuss making one of these old boats quieter I'm all ears.
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Re: Bringing her home
Yeah, I wonder about that too. I'm planning on having the boat pulled next week, it will be interesting to see what prop is on my boat, maybe more dia/pitch than typical? I will also check the tachometer against my handheld Stewart Warner unit to see if there is a problem there.
As to sound suppression: I'm considering building a vented box around the engine. Made (perhaps) of PVC sheet, with fire resistant sound deadening inside/outside of the box. The "lid" or the box would be the new suppression foam in the engine hatches, and the box would be light enough to lift out for service access to the engine for anything more than typical fluid checks. We'll see..
Tom
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:05 am
- Home Port: Long Cove Marina, Chester River Maryland
Re: Bringing her home
Hi Tom I thought the same about a box around the engine. I was looking at the beta canal boat engines one of those models has a box.
Here is the things I have done 1 1/2 inches sound down on hatches and underside of engine room ceiling. 1 inch on the bulkheads. All seams taped. Cracks filled with foam. I roll out 1/4 sound deadening mat over cockpit floor it helps a little bit but not much. It's extremely heavy and made for sound deadening. I put stainless steel scrubbies in the intake breather to act as a muffler. It changed the tone of the engine a bit. The next project probably will be to hang down the sound deadening mat in strips from a bar on each side of the engine. So far not much has helped but I have never been on another 27. We can Easily carry on a conversation.
We have had extensive discussions here about the noise on these boats. They are what they are everything is mechanical in them that equals noisy.
On your injectors I just replaced mine. It did not help the smoke at start up the boat just has to warm up. It can be pretty embarrassing at a marina when you smoke it out. But I tell them it's getting rid of the mosquitoes. It really isn't that bad. I think since it all mechanical a little bit of fuel is left which causes a lot.
I have not done the engine mounts or put a coupling in the driveshaft. My boat has I think 780 hours. Ive totally rebuilt it not the motor. I left the motor and drivetrain in when I did it. The Albin group has been great there is a lot of knowledge here and I've met a lot of great people!
I'll probably sell are boat and get something a little faster. We love poking along on the rivers and looking at things. But when out on the open bay it would be nice to get up and go. It's a great boat that's comfortable the best part my wife loves it.
Good Luck enjoy your boat! Chris
Here is the things I have done 1 1/2 inches sound down on hatches and underside of engine room ceiling. 1 inch on the bulkheads. All seams taped. Cracks filled with foam. I roll out 1/4 sound deadening mat over cockpit floor it helps a little bit but not much. It's extremely heavy and made for sound deadening. I put stainless steel scrubbies in the intake breather to act as a muffler. It changed the tone of the engine a bit. The next project probably will be to hang down the sound deadening mat in strips from a bar on each side of the engine. So far not much has helped but I have never been on another 27. We can Easily carry on a conversation.
We have had extensive discussions here about the noise on these boats. They are what they are everything is mechanical in them that equals noisy.
On your injectors I just replaced mine. It did not help the smoke at start up the boat just has to warm up. It can be pretty embarrassing at a marina when you smoke it out. But I tell them it's getting rid of the mosquitoes. It really isn't that bad. I think since it all mechanical a little bit of fuel is left which causes a lot.
I have not done the engine mounts or put a coupling in the driveshaft. My boat has I think 780 hours. Ive totally rebuilt it not the motor. I left the motor and drivetrain in when I did it. The Albin group has been great there is a lot of knowledge here and I've met a lot of great people!
I'll probably sell are boat and get something a little faster. We love poking along on the rivers and looking at things. But when out on the open bay it would be nice to get up and go. It's a great boat that's comfortable the best part my wife loves it.
Good Luck enjoy your boat! Chris
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:05 am
- Home Port: Long Cove Marina, Chester River Maryland
Re: Bringing her home
Tom one thing I forgot. The best addition I think would be an autopilot it would let you get away from the helm for a bit.
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 2777
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:58 pm
- Home Port: Peoria, AZ USA
Re: Bringing her home
Chris says..
Actually come to think of it, when first looking to switch from sail to power back in 2012 we looked at a '77 A25 that had been repowered with a 40 HP Volvo. That was our first introduction to Albin boats. We went as far as taking a check ride, but the engine vibrated so badly we couldn't go above idle, which scared us away from buying that boat. It had been recently re-powered and I think the issue had to due with misalignment. But even so, probably a big difference between 40 HP and the 24 HP we have now, and even more when considering the what, 50 or 60 HP the A27 has?
Comparing an A25 to A27 noise wise is a bit of 'apples to oranges', but I can say from some experience I believe having a CV joint & thrust bearing, aka "AquaDrive" seems to make a difference. Although that could also be partly attributed to the difference in engines between ours and the only other A25 we've been out on. As noted before, when we were fortunate enough to get a ride on Sunsetrider's A25 "Manatee" out of Gananoque we were shocked by the difference in noise and vibration of his boat compared to ours which does have AquaDrive. Some of that could be due to Manatee being powered by a 36 HP MD17C Volvo compared to our 24 HP Yanmar 3GM30F, the former having 12 more HP than our boat. But the fact of the matter is that the CV setup does allow for soft engine mounts as all the thrust from the prop is absorbed by the thrust bearing and the engine is allowed to 'float' some on soft mounts and transmits less vibration to the hull, and also can compensate for small amounts of engine to prop shaft misalignment. I can say that our boat does run virtually vibration free and quiet enough to easily hold conversations while underway at 2,350 RPM. That and the A25 has an engine box above the level of the cockpit sole and ours has completely factory stock foam sound insulation in the engine box. Would a CV coupling help? Not sure, and it would be an expensive modification assuming there's even room to have one installed. If we do get a chance to visit next year I'd be glad to show what our setup looks like & take you out for a spin around the block & hear for yourself how quiet our engine is.I have not done the engine mounts or put a coupling in the driveshaft.
Actually come to think of it, when first looking to switch from sail to power back in 2012 we looked at a '77 A25 that had been repowered with a 40 HP Volvo. That was our first introduction to Albin boats. We went as far as taking a check ride, but the engine vibrated so badly we couldn't go above idle, which scared us away from buying that boat. It had been recently re-powered and I think the issue had to due with misalignment. But even so, probably a big difference between 40 HP and the 24 HP we have now, and even more when considering the what, 50 or 60 HP the A27 has?
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La Dolce Vita
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
1971 Albin 25 #736
Yanmar 3GM30F
Gig Harbor Boatworks Nisqually 8 dinghy
Residence: Peoria, AZ
Homeport: Lake Pleasant, AZ & beyond
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Re: Bringing her home
Oh yeah, I think an Autopilot is a must. Of the three 27’s we looked at, this was the only one without an A/P. Strange, as it has newer electronics, and even a bow thruster.
As we have mechanical steering, we’ll probably go with an Octopus drive head, and maybe a Garmin control, we have a pretty new 700 series GPS to mate it with. What do you use?
The Master&Commander says noise abatement is job 1 though, so —- WILCO ;<) One of boats we looked at had a newish 100 hp Yanmar. So much quieter and smoother than the Peugeot! Still, Pepe le Pew is what we have, and it’s a fine, reliable engine, so we’ll stay shipmates for the foreseeable future.
Tom
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:05 am
- Home Port: Long Cove Marina, Chester River Maryland
Re: Bringing her home
Hi Tom I don't have an autopilot wish I did. Good luck on the sound deadening keep us informed on what you do. It would be nice to know about your rpms and cruising speeds. Good luck enjoy the boat.
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Re: Bringing her home
Pulled the boat yesterday and solved that particular mystery. This boat is spinning a 19x12 wheel, so an extra inch of diameter compared to most of the Peugeot powered boats. That only leaves about 1-3/4” of tip clearance, pretty marginal?Sprig1 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:49 pm Sounds like a great trip. I have the same engine. You must have something different then me. I'm running about 6.5 to 7.0 knots at 2500 rpm and 87 decibels. I thought I did good sound deadening to. If you want to discuss making one of these old boats quieter I'm all ears.
Tom
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:05 am
- Home Port: Long Cove Marina, Chester River Maryland
Re: Bringing her home
I pulled my boat I have a 15 x 11 that's a big difference. I think we should make a new thread on props for the 4d61 engine. It sure seems like yours is better.
Do you know what type of transmission you have? I have a 1 1/4 inch shaft. I have a bigger prop I might try to put it on. Did you ever try to run wide open and see what rpms are? Thanks for the discussion
Do you know what type of transmission you have? I have a 1 1/4 inch shaft. I have a bigger prop I might try to put it on. Did you ever try to run wide open and see what rpms are? Thanks for the discussion
- DCatSea
- Gold Member
- Posts: 918
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:53 pm
- Home Port: Alexandria VA
- Location: Alexandria VA
Re: Bringing her home
My last trip I was also running 2500 - 2600 rpm at 6.5 - 7 knots and 87 decibels. My existing soundproofing is old and knackered but hopefully I may be making some serious inroads into the issue this winter/spring. I hope I've found a way to get this down to more manageable levels (I'd be happy with <87 at cruising). This is my normal cruising speed. If I start to rush around at 7 - 7.5 knots at 2700 - 2800 rpm there is apparently no significant change in decibel levels - just diesel use.
I'm just using a decibel app on my iPhone, but it seems responsive.
Regarding installing an "insulated box in the box" - I think its a great idea that would probably work well, but I like the option of being able to get in there quickly in an emergency. Much like me, these older engines are capable of being surprising when least expected.
Somewhere on this forum, from a ways back, is a post about covering the engine (a Lehman) with a good soundproof/fireproof blanket supported by 2 galvanized pipes from the front bulkhead to the back.
Regarding running at full speed - I've wound her up to 3500 - 3600 rpm for short runs (7.5 - 8 knots max) but it's noisy and juicy. That said the mighty 4D61 does "purr along" like a good'un at higher revs - I just don't see the point in doing it. Temps and pressure remain "normal" 40-50 psi and ca. 180.
One advantage - at these enormous speeds I can put up a pretty good wake to occasionally get my own back on the head boats that regularly shake me and the Commodore around when passing in either direction.
I'll keep this forum posted - but not until the soundproofing work is done.
I'm just using a decibel app on my iPhone, but it seems responsive.
Regarding installing an "insulated box in the box" - I think its a great idea that would probably work well, but I like the option of being able to get in there quickly in an emergency. Much like me, these older engines are capable of being surprising when least expected.
Somewhere on this forum, from a ways back, is a post about covering the engine (a Lehman) with a good soundproof/fireproof blanket supported by 2 galvanized pipes from the front bulkhead to the back.
Regarding running at full speed - I've wound her up to 3500 - 3600 rpm for short runs (7.5 - 8 knots max) but it's noisy and juicy. That said the mighty 4D61 does "purr along" like a good'un at higher revs - I just don't see the point in doing it. Temps and pressure remain "normal" 40-50 psi and ca. 180.
One advantage - at these enormous speeds I can put up a pretty good wake to occasionally get my own back on the head boats that regularly shake me and the Commodore around when passing in either direction.
I'll keep this forum posted - but not until the soundproofing work is done.
Doug and Georgia
"Mazboot" - 1984 27 FC #142
Lehman 4D61
Tribe 9.5 yak
Jackson STAXX-11 yak
Alexandria City Marina - F-03
"Mazboot" - 1984 27 FC #142
Lehman 4D61
Tribe 9.5 yak
Jackson STAXX-11 yak
Alexandria City Marina - F-03
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- Gold Member
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:10 am
- Home Port: Thousand Islands NY
Re: Bringing her home
My boat also has a 1-1/4" shaft, and it has a Hurth gearbox, I'm not sure of the ratio, maybe 2.72/1 -- that seems to be the norm.
I have no idea of what it will turn wide open with that huge prop, we've only run the boat twice, and it's pulled and on the hard now. I would guess it's over-propped, and I'd be afraid of loading it up at full throttle. I'm planning on adding a exhaust gas temp gauge for next season. That will give me a better idea of what is going on internally under load.
I'm a bit worried about the tip clearance to the hull with that 19" wheel as well. With only about 1-3/4" gap, that's only 9% of diameter, way less than the recommended 15 to 20%. Tip clearance is less critical at low speeds though, so maybe it will be OK. There is some vibration at certain RPMs, but it seems no worse with the prop turning than in neutral, so I don't know?
Tom
I have no idea of what it will turn wide open with that huge prop, we've only run the boat twice, and it's pulled and on the hard now. I would guess it's over-propped, and I'd be afraid of loading it up at full throttle. I'm planning on adding a exhaust gas temp gauge for next season. That will give me a better idea of what is going on internally under load.
I'm a bit worried about the tip clearance to the hull with that 19" wheel as well. With only about 1-3/4" gap, that's only 9% of diameter, way less than the recommended 15 to 20%. Tip clearance is less critical at low speeds though, so maybe it will be OK. There is some vibration at certain RPMs, but it seems no worse with the prop turning than in neutral, so I don't know?
Tom
- DCatSea
- Gold Member
- Posts: 918
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:53 pm
- Home Port: Alexandria VA
- Location: Alexandria VA
Re: Bringing her home
Knew it was there somewhere: A25/A27 True Classics; there are 74 posts on or with info about soundproofing in "The noisy 4D61 rides again" from 2015.
Good to read again. Hope this helps.
Good to read again. Hope this helps.
Doug and Georgia
"Mazboot" - 1984 27 FC #142
Lehman 4D61
Tribe 9.5 yak
Jackson STAXX-11 yak
Alexandria City Marina - F-03
"Mazboot" - 1984 27 FC #142
Lehman 4D61
Tribe 9.5 yak
Jackson STAXX-11 yak
Alexandria City Marina - F-03
- DCatSea
- Gold Member
- Posts: 918
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:53 pm
- Home Port: Alexandria VA
- Location: Alexandria VA
Re: Bringing her home
Chris (Sprig1)
Chris - just rereading posts on 4D61 soundproofing from 2015. Did you use Vic K's (Capt Vic) sound blanket? It seemed like a very good option, especially with more up-to-date (millenial) soundproofing materials available these days. I'm determined to have a quieter 2020 - but at what mechanical cost?
"The noisy 4D61 rides again" makes for interesting reading.
Give me a call if you have a min.
Chris - just rereading posts on 4D61 soundproofing from 2015. Did you use Vic K's (Capt Vic) sound blanket? It seemed like a very good option, especially with more up-to-date (millenial) soundproofing materials available these days. I'm determined to have a quieter 2020 - but at what mechanical cost?
"The noisy 4D61 rides again" makes for interesting reading.
Give me a call if you have a min.
Doug and Georgia
"Mazboot" - 1984 27 FC #142
Lehman 4D61
Tribe 9.5 yak
Jackson STAXX-11 yak
Alexandria City Marina - F-03
"Mazboot" - 1984 27 FC #142
Lehman 4D61
Tribe 9.5 yak
Jackson STAXX-11 yak
Alexandria City Marina - F-03