Albin 25 fuel gauge help

[Plum76]

So, was addressing a reported leaking/seeping fuel gauge gasket on the top of my fuel tank, PO reported it would seep when tank was full and sloshed around.

I pulled the gauge, only had 3 machine screws and one self tapping unit in at an odd angle, cleaned everything up and checked the threads in the tank, they seem ok, though I question the screw size, they feel a bit loose.

Anyway, cut a new gasket from nitrile sheet and go to reinstall, but turns out the bolt pattern on the garage doesn’t match the tank, hence the oddball screw issue upon removal.

Looking for info on the stock gauge to see what my options are for the correct part. Also would be interested in actual screw specs if anybody has those handy, I’m guessing I have the SAE equivalent to the original metric spec in there.

Thanks.

Jason

[DesertAlbin736]

Looking for info on the stock gauge to see what my options are for the correct part.

Can only guess here. Is your gauge the pure mechanical 'look through the hole in the floorboard to read' float type, or the sender for an electrical gauge on the dashboard? Since the 25 was actually built in Sweden, as opposed to 27FC & 28 TE and others that were built in the USA ,the original screw hole threads were likely metric. Easy to check that by trying out some metric screws. But these boats being so old who knows what parts are original & what are aftermarket replacements, especially things like float gauges. The fact that the bolt patterns don't match up suggests your gauge is an off the shelf replacement. Pulling, checking, and possibly cleaning the fuel tank is on my list of overhaul/preventive maintenance items for this year, since I've never done anything to the tank other than changing primary filter/separator cartridges in the 5 & 1/2 years and 600 engine hours we've put on on the engine since we bought our boat. PO documentation passed along to us shows the last survey that mentioned anything about the fuel tank, which said their were no problems at that time, dates back to the late 1990s.

[Plum76]

After more research, I've verified my mechanical reader (just the mechical/float type guage) is based on the SAE 5bolt fuel flange standard, so it only fits 1 orientation. At this point, I'm assuming that I just didn't get it lined up correctly. I'll be trying a metric (M5) bolt as well, to see if that tightens up the thread tolerances a bit, or use a small bit of teflon tape if I can't find a better screw fit. Hoping if I can correctly install the gauge with all 5 bolts that it should solve the weeping problem, as it wasn't really firmly attached before. The old gasket appears good, no tears or rips, I just think it wasn't tight.

Short of finding an orientation that fits, I'm thinking the retrofit is to 'slot a couple of my mounting holes, such that I have enough room to hit the tank mounts. I don't know the history of my tank either, but there is a marking on it from a 2018 inspection, but I'm not sure what that included. I changed all my fuel filters this fall, but the tank is nearly full for the winter, so no chance to check it for debris right now.

Jason

[DesertAlbin736]

...the tank is nearly full for the winter, so no chance to check it for debris right now.

I imagine so. Judging from news accounts of an airliner that slid off the icy runway on landing in a snowstorm at Chicago it appears winter has arrived in your area. Still sunny & in the low 80s to upper 70s all week here.

[WillieC]

Lost yet another detailed reply. When will I learn to write reply in SAVED Word type document, then paste...

Put in a SeaBuilt access port. Clean tank properly.

Find correct bolts, seal threads.

That's it.

[DesertAlbin736]

Lost yet another detailed reply. When will I learn to write reply in SAVED Word type document, then paste...

I hate when that happens, which is usually (but not too often) when composing & posting from smartphone instead of desktop PC. Get all set to hit 'submit' & it bounces back to login screen & post is gone. ARRGGGHHH!!! (pounding forehead on table).

Put in a SeaBuilt access port. Clean tank properly.

Duly noted & URL saved, added to project list. What size plate did you install, & is one access port enough to clean the whole tank (baffles)? Now just have to figure best way to get the last 8 or 10 gallons drained from tank into jerry gans, fuel 'polished' & use in the truck.

In the midst of 'overhaul' work this fall. Only recently has it gotten cool enough outside to work inside the cabin. From the time we got back from PNW in August it stayed in the 100s through all of September & upper 90s through most of October. Expected to be upper 70s today, 83 over the weekend, which means inside the cabin will only get up to about 90 or so. Woo hoo! One thing leads to another. Completed repair of leak in fresh water tank. That was fun getting the tank out, had to pull almost all the woodwork ahead of the settee bins, including the anchor locker partition, which meant taking out side shelves. That's all back together now. If we do this loop thing in Ontario next year the holding tank Y valve needs to be lockable in case we get inspected (the whole region is no discharge), so I'm replacing the existing Y valve which is not lockable with a Raritan one that is . So I pulled the old one, & with that apart decided might as well pull the holding tank out & clean it out, and while the tank is out might as well clean & repaint the bilge in that area under the tank, which like most of the bilge is filthy. Also while that's out need to trace & maybe rewire the voltage sensing wire for the external voltage reg (routed under the tank) which was giving me problems during this past summer's PNW cruise. On and on it goes.

DSCN3423c.jpg

New valve

Raritan Y valve 503663_1.jpg

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[WillieC]

All good stuff to do, Steve...the footbone is connected to the legbone...the legbone, etc.

What I tried to post earlier was all the details about the SeaBuilt install. I used an 8 inch port which nets a 6 inch hole. Part of the whole project was to remove the detached baffle banging around inside the tank. I had to cut it in half inside the tank to remove it, but easy to do with good snips. I removed the whole tank so I could clean the mess under and around it and to re do the bedding the tank sort of sits on. Just make sure to lock it back in place, secure it to the boat so it doesn't go airborne in the Strait of Georgia.

Get a cheapo electric pulse type fuel pump, I think you can find them for under $30, to drain the tank. I went ahead and installed mine with a momentary switch right in line with the mechanical lift pump to greatly simplify fuel system bleeding. Neither pump appears to hinder or damage the other pump, three years on. I also have a filter funnel I use to run fuel through. It separates out big chunks and any water. You are left to deal with a little fuel mix that stays in the funnel. I have had no issues using the filtered fuel back in the truck or the boat. Poor mans polishing but for us it works. I also don't have to deal with 500 gallons of five year old fuel.

[Plum76]

Rounding back, I went back out to the boat and remeasured, my fuel tank has the 5 bolt SAE fuel flange standard pattern, so was able to get it lined up. Only remaining issue was the use of various different bolts by the PO, not really clear what original thread it was. 3 bolts took a M5 x 0.8 metric thread, two others wouldn’t. The others would start to bind, so I went back to the #10 x 32 fine thread bolts.

I suspect original threads were metric being Swedish and all, but over the years of ‘making do’, they’re a bit bastardized at this point. Was able to tighten down a gasket though, so until the tank is empty and needing removal or at least a clean out so I can re-tap them, will have to do.

My only nitpick is that the orientation to read the gauge is facing toward the forward cabin, but small issue, as long as it doesn’t weep fuel, should be fine.

And yes, we’re out of season here, parked the boat during a snowstorm..

[WillieC]

Over half the bolts holding my exhaust manifold to the Volvo Penta heads were 5/16-18... They ALMOST fit the metric threads. The farther in, the more they would bind, so whoever thought this was a good idea ended up cutting the bolts short. This is what saved my bacon. I was able to clean up the threads in the heads with the correct metric starter and bottom taps and patience. These completely different bolt systems were amazingly close. It probably kept me occupied for a couple weeks devoted entirely to scratching my head.

Is there enough meat left on the gauge flange to oversize the bolts by drilling and tapping?
Since it is not now leaking, leaving it alone is not bad. It sounds like you have a sight gauge. Maybe they all came that way, up to a model year. We have an electric gauge. You might consider that upgrade at some point. When you get bored on all the other projects.

[tribologist]

It’s plausible they are metric. The Moeller kit comes with both so it would not surprise me. You could helicoil them if the holes are damaged. Dont just oversize them. That ruins it for any future replacement forcing you to drill the gage. What years is yours from?

Ulf

[DesertAlbin736]

It sounds like you have a sight gauge. Maybe they all came that way, up to a model year. We have an electric gauge. You might consider that upgrade at some point.

Ours has a sight gauge too, which I don't mind. They probably did come that way at least in the early years. Pretty much KISS issue. I track engine hours & log fuel fill ups & by now know pretty much what fuel level should be for so many hours run. A mechanical float gauge is as simple & more or less fail safe as could be.

Brrr, that looks cold up there! As I write this at 5:50 MST the thermometer on the back patio reads 76, down from a high of 81 this afternoon. 82 tomorrow but a storm system, the first of our winter rainy season, is due in Tuesday thru Thursday which will then drop our highs down to the mid 60s & lows in low to mid 40s.

weather.jpg

[Plum76]

Is there enough meat left on the gauge flange to oversize the bolts by drilling and tapping?
Since it is not now leaking, leaving it alone is not bad. It sounds like you have a sight gauge. Maybe they all came that way, up to a model year. We have an electric gauge. You might consider that upgrade at some point. When you get bored on all the other projects.

Yeah, probably. I’m hoping that a simple chase with the correct tap will reform them well enough, but as you point out, if the weep is gone for now, will probably leave be until a better reason comes up, like a near empty tank and enough time to do a clean out. Short of being able to salvage the threads, pulling the tank to have it repaired correctly seems to be last resort.

Onto the next issue, trying to sort out my wiring a bit better. Seems to work, but quite cobbled together and many splices, can be simpler and better understood so I’ve got more confidence in it.

JP

[WillieC]

Fortunately, these A25s are pretty simple as to the wiring. Mine has been cobbled under the dash, some of which I have contributed to...adding gauges, tapping the backlight circuit, etc... I may clean it up someday, or not!

I did take some time to clean up the main power circuit(s). I couldn't get to the batteries without taking the floorboards apart, then I found the four position switch hidden down there, set to BOTH. Some back-up, NOT. A bunch of taps off the battery terminals...it drove me nuts. So I did clean all that up, new main cables with only ONE per battery terminal. With the bigazz fuse blocks right at the positive terminals. Surprising how fast all that stuff adds up, but I know what I have and have had no issues with any of that wiring. The stuff under the dash is small potatoes.

Otherwise, the boat house light circuits are simple. Looks like lampcord run around the boat, original?, all lamps replaced with LED greatly reducing load. Works for now.

While I had the engine out for refreshing, I welded on a ground lug right near the starter. One that I can actually reach and clean up if needed. None of this oil soaked, nearly rusted off bolt, inaccessible, side of crankcase location. Right at the starter. Real tinned cable beats the heck out of ancient automotive 13 strand, half of which are cut through, oil wicked up halfway to the battery, run through a bolt-on clamp... the engine clicks over and starts in two or three revolutions now.

Take your time cleaning it all up. The wiring diagrams are pretty good and there isn't that much to screw up. Keep us posted.

[dkirsop]

The best part of re-wiring your boat is that you get to practice your yoga while contorting in the head (both of them). It makes for a good winter project. When I did mine I was amazed the boat had not gone up in an electrical pyrotechnic. Lots of power taps taken from any convenient cable and lots of charred crimp splices to show for the effort. You can't get every wire but you can get a lot of them including the high amperage ones. Everyone takes a different approach so go with what works for you but do use quality wire, terminals, crimp tools and components. Keep a wiring diagram - future owners will thank you.

Rewired.jpg

Wiring Diagram.jpg

The diagram ain't pretty but it does the job.

[WillieC]

Ok, Mr. K. I am properly shamed. Guess I have another winter project.

Go ahead and remove the toilet. It's easier to service out in the driveway. (You know it needs service.) That will give you room for the barcalounger so you can rewire in style.

You are WAY too modest about that wiring diagram. A25 owners, take note! I am taking wire cutters to my panel this afternoon. Maybe tomorrow.