Triangle Loop

[DesertAlbin736]

Oh, by the way Nancy & a bit off topic, I notice your home port is listed as Lake Champlain? We are thinking, very loosely & daydreaming at this point, of next year taking our boat back East & doing the so-called "Triangle Loop". That is Erie Canal from Tonawanda to Oswego canal/river, up to Lake Ontario, over to St. Lawrence River, down St Lawrence (or optionally Rideau Canal to Ottowa & down Ottowa River back to St Lawrence), on beyond Montreal to Richelieu River/Canal confluence at Sorel, Quebec, down (or up as it were, upstream) the Richelieu to Lake Champlain & canal & Hudson River down to Waterford, NY & back the full length of Erie Canal to Tonawanda & haul out. Any advice (by PM) or stories of related experience would be appreciated. Have you done or considered anything like that? Going clockwise would be mostly running downstream except for the stretch on the Richelieu from Sorel to upper Lake Champlain. As long at we could find fuel docks every 100 miles or so we'd be OK, 200 miles if we took a couple 5 gallon jerry cans of extra fuel along.

[Nancy]

I've moved your post to the Cruising section as I think more people may see it here as opposed to a thread on LED lighting.

We have not done extensive cruising, but we've talked to people over the years who have done portions of the route. I'm afraid I can't be of much help beyond Lake Champlain. A preliminary google search on "cruising triangle loop" brings up quite a few resources. I'm sure you're familiar with some of them already.

[DesertAlbin736]

Yes we've run across a few items, blogs, etc on the subject. We have some past experience transiting locks on the Erie Canal, but only between Seneca Lake & Fairport, NY. Concerns about Lake Champlain mostly have to do with weather, availability & distances between fuel docks selling diesel, pump out stations, marinas, stores for provisions & ice, tow services & repair facilities in case of breakdowns, etc. A few years ago we visited A25 owner "Sunsetrider" in Gananoque, ON & got a short boat ride around the Thousand Islands portion of St. Lawrence River.

[Nancy]

With a 100-mile range, diesel fuel on Lake Champlain won't be a problem. Lake Champlain is an ideal cruising ground. Many people believe it's one of the best in the world. I recommend "CRUISING GUIDE TO THE HUDSON RIVER, LAKE CHAMPLAIN, THE ST. LAWRENCE RIVER" - https://www.landfallnavigation.com/c-g- ... plain.html. When you get more serious, you might want Bob Vogel's "LAKE CHAMPLAIN ATLAS OF NAVIGATIONAL CHARTS" - https://www.landfallnavigation.com/lake ... atlas.html. Or standard paper charts.

[DesertAlbin736]

Thanks! Those look like valuable resources, I will add them to my list of favorite's links. I like to have paper charts or atlas handy (love the A25's chart table at the helm!). My Garmin 741xs chartplotter has built in charts for 14,000 US lakes, and if it doesn't cover St. Lawrence River & the canals I'm sure I can purchase add ons that do. Right now I can't pull those up on the chart plotter because the boat is laid up on the trailer at the storage yard & I don't have a cable & plug that I can use to hook up the chartplotter to a battery at home. It's so hot right now the temperature inside the wheelhouse & cabin is over 110 to 120 degrees, so I can only stand to be in the boat for a few minutes at time. I know that's hard to fathom that kind of heat back in NY, but your forecast high of 82 is our overnight low, and the high today is expected to hit 108. Like a parked car, whatever the outside temperature is, inside the closed up boat is 10 to 15, even 20 degrees hotter.

Before I moved to Arizona 42 years ago I lived near Saratoga Springs, NY. So if we go all the way down the Champlain Canal to Whitehall & down the Hudson River to Waterford we''ll be passing literally within a few miles of where I lived before becoming a "desert rat". Back in those days I didn't have the resources as a young twenty-something living paycheck to very meager paycheck to explore Lake Champlain, one reason why I moved to Arizona. That part of NY seemed to always be in a state of perpetual recession. I imagine Champlain is a premier cruising ground & I'm getting more psyched by the day about it and doing this loop. But 'best in the world' may have some competition from the Salish Sea, San Juan Islands in WA, Gulf Islands, Sunshine Coast, Desolation Sound, and Jervis Inlet/Princess Louisa Inlet/Chatterbox Falls in British Columbia, Canada. Champlain may match, but would they exceed scenes like this? These photos were taken in mid-July, and there was still snow on the mountain peaks.

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[Nancy]

I said one of the best. Come and see for yourself. There's a lot to be said for freshwater cruising, and while those snow-covered mountains are beautiful, I prefer boating in way less than a down parka. How about swimmable water and no sharks? Does that count?

The McKibben book is dated with regard to marinas, but info about harbors and approaches doesn't change.

Yes, the economy in the Adirondacks has always been difficult.

[DesertAlbin736]

I said one of the best. Come and see for yourself.

I hope we can! I can do a "virtual" cruise on Google Maps I see a lot of what the locks etc look like. I think the biggest difference is how relatively flat the terrain is compared to the NW. If it's fresh water boating in way less than a down parka you're after you could do that out here in December when its' 60s & low 70s. At the rate we're going it's likely we won't see much less than 80 deg before Thanksgiving. I'd like to be on Champlain as the leaves are turning. Late September to early October? Just so we could get back to our launch point at Tonawanda before weather got too nasty & certainly before they closed the canal system for the season. The water in the Pacific NW is mostly too cold to swim in, except in a few places up in Desolation Sound where the tides don't mix much & water can get close to 70. Also some alpine lakes you can hike to & go swimming. 12 foot tides take some getting used to & have to take them into account when anchoring and the tide currents in narrow passes.

[Nancy]

This year, the NY canals close on Oct. 16. I assume next year will be similar. In late September-early October, you'll see early foliage on Lake Champlain. Peak foliage in the Champlain Valley is usually around Columbus Day. The weather can start to get windy and chilly by late September.

[DesertAlbin736]

This year, the NY canals close on Oct. 16. I assume next year will be similar. In late September-early October, you'll see early foliage on Lake Champlain. Peak foliage in the Champlain Valley is usually around Columbus Day. The weather can start to get windy and chilly by late September.

Yikes! That would be cutting it close. That's the whole canal system including the Erie closing on 10/16? I remember from living back there we'd start getting frosts overnight by mid October, whereas out here we might see a few nights dip below freezing to the low 30s & upper 20s around mid December but sometimes not at all. Also remember seeing ice jams on the Mohawk in late winter/early spring breakup. Some wind & chill & even rain we can handle since we're sheltered in the wheelhouse & enclosed cockpit. We've handled 15-20 knot winds & 3 & 4 foot waves. But wouldn't want to get caught stranded 100s of miles from our truck & trailer with the canals closing on us before we got back to our launch point. So it looks like our choice may be cut 300 miles off the on-water distance by launching at the west end of Oneida Lake instead of Tonawanda, or even limiting the cruise to Champlain lake & canal & Hudson River between Waterford & Sorel and be back & off the water before the end of September & miss the peak of fall colors. Food for thought! Thanks!

[Nancy]

Yes, from what I understand on the canal web site, the entire system closes 10/16. How early in the spring were you thinking of getting started? Maybe some of the triangle loop blogs talk about timing.

[DesertAlbin736]

I guess we'd want to plan the start date by working backward from when we wanted to be back to our launch point to haul out & end the cruise. I ran across a YouTube video where it took a guy 12 days on the canal to get from NYC to Oswego, which is around 360 miles. But that was a fast boat that could make good time on the lower Hudson & across various lakes. Then we go down the St Lawrence to Sorel, upstream on the Richelieu to Lake Champlain, down to Waterford & back. I'd probably want to allocate at least 2 months on the water plus the road trip, which be at least 7 or 8 days from AZ to let's say the west end of Oneida Lake since we don't like to drive much over 60 MPH & more than 350 miles per day. I estimate roughly 765 statute miles more or less if we started & ended at Brewerton, NY at the west end of Oneida Lake. In that case 60 day cruise window would average about 12 statute miles per day run time. Averaging 20 miles per day would allow for weather delays & spending more than one night at any one stop. Last time we did a segment of the Erie Canal from Seneca Lake to Fairport we started on May 30th & it was cold (to us), in the 50s, and rainy for the first couple days There it took us 5 days to do the 110 mile round trip with one day staying put in Lyons due to snotty weather. So I'd say launch no earlier than July 1st which should get us back by Labor Day or so. Perhaps launch around July 15th? That would give us a two month window on the water to get back by mid September, with a 30 day grace period before the canals close in October. Never know when a breakdown or storms might tie us up for days at a time. Might have to come up with some sort of small portable A/C unit that we could plug in at docks for those warm, muggy days in July & August. Which by the way, the thermometer on my back patio is reading 107 right now at 1:40 PM MST, and we're just a week out from Labor Day. We've not seen a drop of rain since returning home on August 7. Record high for this time of year in Ticonderoga is around 92 but mostly average in the low 80s? We know how muggy & hot it can be on the Chesapeake in July, though up north should not be that bad.

[Nancy]

Yes, it can be miserable here in July in the cabin on a dock with no air conditioning. Fans help, but not the same. My dockmate with a 27' Regal bought a portable A/C unit at Lowe's and says it's working well, but there's almost no room for anything else in his mid-cabin.

Yes, early June can be chilly, even to us.

I couldn't stand 107.

[DesertAlbin736]

I wonder if this MacGyver A/C setup would work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BufNIXANedc

We have this shelf under the front hatch. Could we rig a small window unit A/C there with vents like this guy made? We have an outlet for a 15 amp circuit 115V in the front wall of the hanging closet.

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We used to have a Cruisair portable hatch unit that we sold before we bought our current boat. But one of those wouldn't fit our boat anyway, since the foredeck looks like this with our samson post cleat & anchor winch & bowsprint in the way. This photo was from the PO & before we removed the jerry cans & rack & shortened the bow sprit but otherwise is the same as now.

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[DesertAlbin736]

Maybe we’ll see you on the Rideau next year.

Kerry,

That would be neat. Will let you know as we get into next year & closer & outline a rough schedule (knowing one can't count on sticking to any precise schedule) & have a chance to coordinate if you're thinking of heading up that way next year. Roughly speaking the track would look like this, maybe with a side trip from Kingston to Gananoque & back before entering the Rideau Canal system. Time wise the hard deadline would to get back to launch point & haul out at west end of Oneida Lake before the canals close on or around October 16, with a least a couple weeks cushion. And we'd like to see at least the early phase of fall colors at some point on the trip. That means arriving back at Oneida Lake let's say on or shortly before end of September, hopefully no later than October 7. Say we average 12 miles per day, including allowance for unforeseen delays, stopping for a couple days at a time to tour Ottowa, Montreal, take a bus from Montreal to Quebec City. Meaning some days may cover 20 to 25 miles, others 10 or less or stopped in one spot for several days. So if we shoot for launching by July 20 that gives us a 72 day window. For scale, the distance on the Rideau from Kingston to Ottowa is 126 miles. Somewhere in the range of +/-750 miles in all.

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[allante]

Hope to do the Great Loop someday but there is also the less known Down East Loop.

http://www.trawlercygnus.com/the-downeast-loop/