Just ordered a rebuilt MS tranny from Sound Marine Diesel

[NickScheuer]

Should'a inquired here whether there are alternatives for our MD17C V-P engine. This will be my second replacement. One would think the tranny should be "bullet proof". How hard is it to engineer "forward-neutral-reverse"?

[DesertAlbin736]

Give my regards to Sound Marine Diesel. Wish we could have met Joe when we stopped by his Connecticut shop in 2015. No, it's not a big time outlet, very Mom & Pop. Hope everything works out with the new/rebuilt unit.

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[WillieC]

"One would think the tranny should be "bullet proof". How hard is it to engineer "forward-neutral-reverse"?"

No, duh. I have been pondering this for too long myself since the tranny is about the only thing I don't have a spare of. Back in the day, and very likely ongoing today, there were engineering outfits that made adapter plates to repower VW vans with just about any engine you could cobble together. The same kind of work is involved in adapting GOOD, SOLID, NO-NONSENSE, transmissions to the old Volvo Pentas. Trouble is, there aren't that many of us left. I have pondered welding up my own "adapter box", no need for one-off unobtanium billet quality work...just line up the shafts and and make the rubber baby buggy bumper coupling (similar to many motorcycle driven wheels) work! I just need the right transmission. And Seattle Marine has plenty of VP green spray paint. I already figured out how to modify the engine mounts to install the MD17C in the hole formerly occupied by the venerable MD3B. Surely, this can't be that hard! And, in a last minute fit of desperation I fashioned a simple linkage extender plate to the MSB transmission that allowed me to re-use the existing cable from the old RB transmission, with its foot long throw! We don't need no stinkin' telecaster paralegal irv levoloid cables!

Sorry to hear this is your second dance with the MSB transmission. Now I am really
starting to get worried.

My dad, clever fellow that he was made a small tractor out of single cylinder 10 horse aircooled engine, an ancient side-shift Harley transmission, complete with kick start, and a rear axle out of some three wheeled, chain driven delivery vehicle. two-inch water pipe frame. No guards, on the primary or secondary chains. It was too tall in the gear ratio and wouldn't do much tractor work, so he bolted up another tranny out of a rental tractor he somehow acquired, don't ask, don't tell... In reverse-reverse, that sucker would climb straight up a tree. I hadn't thought about that old POS (the tractor, not dad) for decades, and here I am doing the same stuff...

So, what tranny should we be looking for? 1.91:1 reduction preferred. Needs about an inch and a half drop from the crank to the output shaft. Engine outputs to a left hand prop. It would be nice to eliminate the raw water cooling feature while we are dreaming.
36 horse is all it will be subject to.

[NickScheuer]

It would be nice if the "new" tranny didn't have to serve double duty as the back end of the crankcase. I learned the hard way with the first trans change that when it comes loose, 5 quarts of oil are dumped into the pan under the engine. Good thing it's a nice smooth fiberglass molding; easy to mop clean..

[WillieC]

I read the same thing elsewhere. However, I think the engine and the tranny (MSB) do not share the same oil. They have separate fills and dipsticks that must be observed. I say this to note the distinction from the earlier RB transmission that was installed on the MD3B type engines. Those trannies do share the same crankcase oil. I suspect the oil is coming from the bell housing which bolts up to the engine, thus engine oil. It may also belch forth when the tranny alone is removed from the bell housing. Still, the reservoirs are separate.

Yes, easy to mop clean. That is why I chose not to paint the engine pan. Last thing I need is paint chips mixed with gallons of oil. (It doesn't take much oil to look like a lot.)

If it is not too impertinent, how much do rebuilt transmissions cost? Is yours the last one available on earth? I was just reading on another forum about a guy having trouble with an MD7B transmission. Lo and behold...same tranny. (Assuming same 1.91:1).

[kerrye]

What was wrong with each transmission? I seem to recall you having no reverse in a lock with the first one. Seems odd to have two fail so close together. How many engine hours between failures. Is there a common cause?

[DesertAlbin736]

Is there a common cause?

I feel for the frustration. My worst experience with cars in 50 years of driving was when I owned a '66 Volvo 122S, so I'm not a big fan of Volvo. Love Albin boats & Origo alchohol stoves as examples of good Swedish engineering. Volvo not so much. The other car Sweden made was SAAB. The saying went, "When you have a SAAB, you sob". When was the last time anyone saw a SAAB on the road? If it were me I'd view the situation as an excuse to repower with a Beta or Yanmar and hang the cost.

[NickScheuer]

Yes, the engine and tranny have separate oil reservoirs. However, the tranny case is complete, so it's oil will only drain out through the fill (dipstick) hole. The engine block is open on the aft end and the tranny needs to be in-place in order for the crankcase to hold oil. When mounting a tranny one needs to carefully apply sealant to both sides of a paper gasket in order for the complete assembly to be oil-tight in operation.

[Dieselram94]

Is there a common cause?

I feel for the frustration. My worst experience with cars in 50 years of driving was when I owned a '66 Volvo 122S, so I'm not a big fan of Volvo. Love Albin boats & Origo alchohol stoves as examples of good Swedish engineering. Volvo not so much. The other car Sweden made was SAAB. The saying went, "When you have a SAAB, you sob". When was the last time anyone saw a SAAB on the road? If it were me I'd view the situation as an excuse to repower with a Beta or Yanmar and hang the cost.

I agree, Saab is a pos. There’s still a few of those piles here in Maine, seems they sold most of those things in New England. I just can’t imagine looking at one new in the showroom and then signing in the dotted line...
If it was me in this situation a new Beta would already be ordered. But then again, I have no patience for messing around with problematic uncommon machinery. When I want it to run, it needs to run.

[WillieC]

Kerrye, he "touched bottom" with this transmission still turning.

See:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11801

[NickScheuer]

Our two transmission scenarios are not the same. The original tranny was equipped with an original single-lever shifter/throttle. I probably aggravated the situation by shifting too quickly from forward to reverse without letting the engine slow down. Anyway, a marina mechanic near the scene (last lock on the Champlain Canal before reaching the Erie Canal) could not get the tranny to shift properly. Later at a competent shop in Racine, WI the mechanic said my shifter was also bad. He changed to a 2-lever Morse shifter with separate throttle.

Cost of a new Beata Diesel is prohibitive and would only be undertaken if the V-P MD17C was unrepairable. Truth be told, I'd rather be cruising with a pair of outboards instead of an inboard.

[WillieC]

Beware the single lever. A friend who shall remain unnamed had his shift cable break at just the wrong time, approaching a dock. He pulled it back into reverse and still the boat kept going forward. Not realizing the tranny was still stuck in forward, he pulled farther back, like one does with single lever units, to give it the gas....

No major damage and a simple cable replacement. Boy, do I like my dual cable set up. Except when my know-it-all acquaintance confused the big honking shift lever that was five feet out of reach up against the window for the easily accessible throttle control. I caught him in time when I asked him to throttle down a few hundred. Nothing should ever be taken for granted. I keep learning.

[kerrye]

What exactly failed in each instance? Not that familiar with marine transmissions and failure modes.

[DSRedston]

Be careful of Sound Marine Diesel. Read the BBB on him

[NickScheuer]

Good News! The prop shaft is not bent! Just got the flange unbolted at the tranny. Joe at Sound Marine Diesel tells me the rebuilt tranny will ship this week, so probably will arrive early next.

Tomorrow I hope to change engine coolant to antifreeze, then pump out the crankcase oil so I can remove the jammed tranny. Need antifreeze in case everything does not get put back together before winter.

I want to get that bad tranny shipped to Joe as quick as possible so I can get my $750 deposit asap. Need it for Christmas shopping, eh?