A25 cautionary tale

[kerrye]

I bought a length of 2 1/2” wire reinforced wet exhaust hose from West Marine and removed the wire reinforcement from about 1” of the end. I believe this will give enough expandability at the end to slip over my existing thru hull and be clamped on to its small lip. I will confirm once I am able to try the fit at the boat.

[ssrig]

Talked to another fellow who has made an extension with ABS pipe and he used exhaust hose to connect the small bit of a lip coming from the exhaust port to the ABS pipe. He mentioned that the other boat did a similar thing with two different size hose with it attached onto the very small lip extending out from the transom fitting along with a stainless bracket to hold it in place off the swim grid. I am assuming that he created some pressure on the hose to keep it snug forward...

Along with that this fellow told of another Albin that had a muffler blow up like yours did in the gulf islands and it almost sank!

[kerrye]

ABS pipe May be the best choice, maybe using a Fernco rubber plumbing coupling to join it to the thrust hull lip. 3’ if 2 1/2” hose cost me $104.

[WillieC]

I think the one ssrig is talking about uses two clamps, one each end of the abs to hold it in position, not so much to clamp it to the lip of the thru-hull. (After hearing the other near sinking story, he really needs to get rid of that 45 yo balloon. Then again he is counting on that abs exterior riser to keep the water out. May be right.)
Long day from Ladysmith home. More later.

[DesertAlbin736]

I'm a little late to this discussion. Now that I'm back home in AZ and on my desktop PC I have a better time posting. I had a heckuva time posting from my smartphone while up in BC and in fact anywhere using my smartphone because, a) half the time were were anchored out where cell signals were nonexistant, b) with my Verizon travel plan every day when mine and the Admiral's phones were turned on in Canada each added $5 to my bill so I only turned the phone on about every other day or so and alternated with her phone, and b) was very frustrating because many times I would be logged in to AOG, type a post or reply, go to submit & would be kicked off, asked to log in again and all my typing would disappear. Seemed to happen most often when in "Full Editor" mode & trying to post a picture.

Anyway Ives , (ssrig) talked about the hose extension & flapper on that one A25 "Breakaway" in Ladysmith. That guy home ports his boat in Ladysmith but was not part of the BC Albineers group, so we didn't see much of him. But the flapper idea (which I've seen on several other non-Albin motorboats) would seem a simple solution to the problem. At least there wouldn't be a matter of trying to push a slug of water out of the line. We have an internal check valve in the exhaust hose downstream of the muffler, as well as a shutoff ball valve mounted under the port quarter berth in the aft cabin (ours is early non-deluxe model with exhaust on the port side, likely because it probably had an AD21 as original engine). Our boat also tends to have a slight starboard list, which helps keep the exhaust outlet above the water. Although we weren't delayed entering the Waterloo lock (CS4 if I'm not mistaken) back in 2015 we've been in the exact same place on the Cayuga-Seneca Canal as Kerry was going from Seneca Lake, through Seneca Falls & on to the main Erie Canal and never had a similar problem. Maybe it has to do with the Yanmar exhaust elbow? Who knows?

Seneca Lake Map.jpg

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Now that we've done San Juans, Gulf Islands, & BC for the 4th time including Desolation Sound & Chatterbox Falls, I'm tempted to go back East in the next year or two & do more of the Erie Canal and other parts of the "Triangle Loop", (see latest issue of BoatUS magazine). Only next time in the fall when the leaves start turning & before they close the canals for the season. When I look back, no matter how much money we've spent on it, the memories & times with our Albin 25 and the people we've met are priceless.

[kerrye]

Whether there’s a current at that lock depends on lake level and whether they are generating at the adjacent power plant

[DesertAlbin736]

Interesting. In our case there didn't appear to be any significant current going on at the time.

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[WillieC]

We were recently side tied up to the dock in Olympia, Percival Landing. All night the wind blew the waves into our stern. All I could think about was Kerrye and blowing up my brand new Number One piston. We have the handy-dandy Vetus through hull exhaust fitting with the five cent plastic flapper doodah and the benefit of our exhaust manifold sitting about 6 inches above waterline. AND the exhaust fitting is BELOW the WL. That's it. I debated pulling the cover in the morning and spinning the engine by hand, just to be safe. Nah! Started like a dream. (We do not have the original balloon muffler, whew!)

Apparently everything about the WillieC exhaust is incorrect, I even wrote to the Vetus guy suggested herein, who roundly condemned our set-up until he realized it has been this way for some 45 years. I am thinking this may be, at least for us, one of those if-it-aint-busted sich-ee-ay-shuns. Still...

[stxray]

Sounds like a total reconfiguration of the exhaust plumping is in order.
Although not a fix, would the installation of an exhaust flap (shown below) be an improvement?

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Currents in the C&D canal can run as much as 2.4 knots in either the ebb or flow direction. If one was docked parallel to the canal and, the current was coming from astern, it sounds like it would be enough to flood the engine while docked. Yes?

[WillieC]

In my case at Percival Landing, it was wind, not current. It is at the end of the waterway. The WillieC has for most of its existence been moored in the water. We are the first to put her on a trailer, that I know of, having been mostly moored in well protected marinas. I am just trying to understand the principles of pushing water uphill. I am familiar with hydraulic ram pumps, but these employ a check valve that prevents water running back down hill. (Dig out your musty old Mother Earth News issues for a primer on hydraulic ram pumps.) My BIL has one in a stream in central Washington that pushes water uphill one heck-uv-a long way uphill to fill a pond for fire protection. Hardly the case of our exhaust system.

I get that enough pressure could overcome the lift to the exhaust manifold, but with each let up in the pressure, would not that water run back down to the waterline out the through hull? It is not like there is a firehose completely sealed to the through hull. All I'm saying is that nothing has happened in the life of this boat as is. Yes, individual components have been changed, as they wear out, exhaust elbows, muffler, clamps, etc. A PSS shaft seal was added at some point that takes water from the raw water feed to the HX to lubricate the PSS. At our speeds and rpm, I understand that this feed is not necessary and need only serve as a vent to ensure water comes up the stern tube to the PSS. I may make that change. I will also note that there is a slight hump in the exhaust hose from the muffler to the below water line through hull. The exhaust hose rises as far as it can and yet remain under the stock floorboards in the starboard aft quarter berth.

I like the style of flapper you have shown, Ray. Not sure if I have enough lip to mount it, but that can be remedied. I will also note that that Vetus flapper through hull was my doing. I replaced the original bronze wide open through hull because I got bored and thought it looked mildly pink. That, and I broke the nut trying to get it out. Shoulda left it alone.

If I were to do anything, I like what I think Hetek has done with the riser tucked behind the aft cabin transom wall. That would make my system have two lifts of about the same height to overcome before flooding the exhaust manifold. As to the possibility of flooding the whole thing with a poorly starting engine and prolonged crank times, I presently do not have that problem. Unless I forget to release the engine stop (fuel shutoff) cable. Besides, I think all the smoke would come out of the starter if I had to crank that long.

Just because it still aint broke after 45 years, am I still pushing my luck by not "fixing" it? Am I really that lucky? How high is the Mega Lottery? And does anybody know what is the acceptable back pressure on the exhaust system for a Volvo Penta MD17C? Adding up all the component pressure values of the "new, improved" exhaust systems is enough of a story problem to make my head hurt.

[DesertAlbin736]

Just because it still aint broke after 45 years, am I still pushing my luck by not "fixing" it?

As they say, 'if it ain't Baroque, don't fix it'!