AD21 won't start

[realslimshady]

went to my boat today after a three week break-previous visit I had been out for a half hour sea test after rebuilding the fuel pump as it had been leaking, and had no problems.
Today, no sign of life. I cracked one of the injector pipes and there was diesel spraying out, so fuel was arriving.
However, it seemed that the little 'cold start' button was not engaging, I couldn't detect it clicking into the depressed position (that's the position I'm in now, ha ha), which would I guess prevent the engine starting.
Anybody know why it would stop working and how to fix it?
Thanks in advance.
It's a standard 1970 era AD21, btw.

[DesertAlbin736]

dkirsop is your go-to guy on AD21 questions. He has one in the relatively cooler climate of N. Pender Island of BC's Gulf Islands.
I know my Yanmar, which does not have glow plugs nor any other cold start features, takes a good bit of cranking to "light off" when the engine has sat cold soaked to anything less than 50 or 60 degrees F.

[dkirsop]

You probably know and did this but just to be sure I’ll say it. For the cold start button to engage you first have to advance the throttle to the “start” position while holding the shift release button in.

If the button still won’t engage the some internal work is required for the injection pump. This requires a specialist.

Another work around is to spray a tiny amount of starter fluid on a cotton cloth and place it near but not against the air intake filter. No more than a one second burst of spray is required. DO NOT SPRAY FLUID DIRECTLY INTO THE AIR INTAKE. THIS CAN DAMAGE THE ENGINE. Crank the engine and let the vapour find its way in.

[dkirsop]

Here are some links that may be of interest to you:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10760
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9911
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9868

[realslimshady]

thanks very much dkirsop-I am aware of the throttle position, thanks for the warning re easystart, I'm going down tomorrow to try and get her going using the stuff, maybe whatever has happened to the cold start button will clear itself. If not I will have a look at your twin glowplug mod-should be able to get a timer relay to fire them for five seconds at a time, wired directly to ignition switch-switch on, count to five, crank. I can never find that little button through the side access panel anyway

[DesertAlbin736]

Our Yanmar isn't happy trying to start from a "cold soak" condition in anything less than 50* F ambient temps. Yanmar doesn't have glow plugs or any other sort of cold start assist that I know of, other than add extra throttle & crank & crank until one or more cylinders fires up in a cloud of black smoke. It behooves one to make sure batteries are kept fully charged.

One suggestion on a related thread on 'ybw.com' suggests thus, and is something that I might try:

If it gets really bad, get a small gas blowlamp and warm the air filter intake for a few seconds - works every time.

Which by "gas blowlamp" I assume would be a propane plumber's torch. If one is tied up to a dock with shore power I suppose a mechanic's electric heat gun would do the same thing.

We're taking our boat out this coming weekend where the highs are expected to be low 50s F & lows near freezing. Once the engine is started & warmed up it'll hold enough heat overnight to start easily the next morning.

Another bit of this thread:

The Yanmar on my boat (about 12 years old) starts first time in summer but now the colder morning are on us it takes a bit more getting going. There is no pre-heating system. Normal practice is lots of throttle & it usually catches on one cylinder & runs on one "pot" until the other 2 start firing some 5-10 seconds later. Lots of smoke when they all catch & then it all settles down. Is this usual for the above engine and if so does anyone have any cold starting tips they can pass on. Thanks.

Answer: We have 2 3GM30's in our club work boats and what you are describing is "normal" On cold days we open the throttle almost full and then hit the starter, the engine always fires up on one cylinder quickly followed by the other two. It always sounds a bit rattley for the first couple of minutes then settles down.
I wouldn't be to concerned if I were you. What ever you do don't be tempted to use "easy start" because once they get a whiff of that stuff they won't start (summer or winter) without it.

Take it for what it's worth in applying to AD21 or any other engine. While not the original engine, the engine in our boat is over 30 years old.

[dkirsop]

I have found that 20 seconds of glow plug prior to cranking works well without harming the glow plugs. The procedure for using ether came from one of the manuals that came with my boat and done properly will not cause harm. Just be careful in how much you use. I had a missfire once and am greatful no damage was done. That is why I avoid using ether (starter fluid) except in difficult situations.

[DesertAlbin736]

We are expecting overnight lows right around freezing (32F/0C) the next few nights and daytime highs barely reaching 50 F (10 C) or a few above which is about as cold as it ever gets around here, so when we go to take the boat out Saturday (yes, insane, I know) the engine will be very cold soaked. I'm thinking of using a propane torch to carefully warm the air going into the intake & see if that helps with cold starting. Big mystery why Yanmar didn't equip their engines with glow plugs.

[DesertAlbin736]

Decided to scrap plans for taking boat out this weekend. Cold snap dropped temps down to freezing overnight. It's actually colder here today than in Sidney, BC, except no rain. So we didn't get to try out cold start strategies.

[realslimshady]

just to update on the situation. Turns out the non-starting is completely my fault-have been running the boat for a year and not once did it cross my mind to drain the water separator...so was trying to start it on a 60/40 water/diesel mix which funnily enough wouldn't work...
So I have cleared that water, changed filter etc but there is a blockage in the injector pump (no surprise, looking at the shite that came out of the separator) and fuel is only reaching the rear injector. So tomorrow l am down there to see if l can clear said blockage. I will try injecting carb cleaner and blowing through, if that doesn't work I'll pull the casting off the top of the pump and see what is revealed... And will report back.

[DesertAlbin736]

Realslimshady,

I know this is veering way off topic, but do you dock your boat in the Gosport marina or over by the Royal Clarence? Through the wonders of Google Maps one can virtually visit & see what the area looks like from a street level view. I must say I'm very impressed by the number of boats, yacht clubs, & docking facilities there in Gosport. Where do you normally cruise? Stick around The Solent? Have you circumnavigated the Isle of Wight? Or go farther afield? You're right near the Royal Navy Submarine Museum & National Museum of the Royal Navy. Have to add those to my bucket list to see all those famous ships like the HMS Victory & HMS Caroline if we ever get to the UK. In 2017 we took an extended 9,600 mile road trip vacation with our camp trailer, and among many other stops (including a visit with Sunsetrider in Ontario) we went to the Philadelphia waterfront & toured the protected cruiser USS Olympia, flagship for the 1898 Battle of Manila Bay in our Spanish American War.

20170922_164443.jpg

[realslimshady]

ok, well first of all would like to report my engine is running again. Removed the casting from the top of the pump which in fact encloses two cam-driven sprung piston pumps, with non return valves. To cut a long story (remove, fit, remove again, fit again) short, managed to clear the blockage in the front pump and after a little coaxing she fired up. Took her out for an hour and ran sweetly. Water separator was full of crud again, so obviously there is residual in the tank, but hopefully will keep on top of that now!

[realslimshady]

DA, in answer to your question, my boat is at Quay Lane boatyard which is a little further north than Royal Clarence, on google maps it's a cluster of pontoons orientated N.E. It's tidal, which makes it affordable-the solent is l believe the most expensive boating area in the UK.
So far in the year I've owned Lydia l have made it as far as Cowes and Yarmouth on the IOW on two occasions, at 6 knots those places are quite a marathon! Now the boat is coming together and is liveable for a night or two I hope to spend more weekends away-I had more plans last year but weather or other extraneous circumstances stopped them happening. As for circumnavigating the IOW-I've heard it's not the most exciting/scenic trip at 30 knots, so maybe I'll leave it for now....

[Tree]

DA, in answer to your question, my boat is at Quay Lane boatyard which is a little further north than Royal Clarence, on google maps it's a cluster of pontoons orientated N.E. It's tidal, which makes it affordable-the solent is l believe the most expensive boating area in the UK.
So far in the year I've owned Lydia l have made it as far as Cowes and Yarmouth on the IOW on two occasions, at 6 knots those places are quite a marathon! Now the boat is coming together and is liveable for a night or two I hope to spend more weekends away-I had more plans last year but weather or other extraneous circumstances stopped them happening. As for circumnavigating the IOW-I've heard it's not the most exciting/scenic trip at 30 knots, so maybe I'll leave it for now....

The island is a lovely jaunt especially down the needles end during the summer months.

Did you get my DM? Still showing in my outbox i think. I am in work this morning if you fancy a brew - I may even pop over to the cafe in the yard for breakfast if i get wrapped up here early enough if you're about?

[WillieC]

Brew for breakfast? I really need to get over there. These are my kind of folk.