A 25 rudder issues

[Dieselram94]

Just purchased this boat. Looks as if someone has unfortunately modified the lower rudder strut. This makes it very difficult to remove the rudder. I tried to disengage the strut but was going to be really pulling hard on the rudder backwards and forcing strut downward to disengage it. Looks as if I was to get a new rudder foot (pipehead?) I could take a chunk of the round stock someone has slid into the stainless strut/pipe and get it drilled and tapped so as I would have a way to bolt the foot back on as it’s supposed to be. Whoever did this made a rugged repair but your forced to force the parts apart to get the bottom rudder stock to come out of the lower holder.
Also noticed the keel is cracked where the strut is embedded, it’s still strong, but I think I’ll gouge out the cracks and use thickened epoxy to fill, after I’ll wrap the keel with biaxial wetted out with epoxy. Any thoughts on this? Also Anyone have the correct parts?

[kerrye]

Did you check the Albin store in Sweden?

[kerrye]

I saw a similar crack on an Albin I was considering buying and wondered how serious it was

[hetek]

Albin Motor has the pipehead. Here:

http://mmd.nu/shop233/catalog/product_i ... 92d0ab6865

1,300 SEK = $143.18 USD at the current exchange rate. Shipping is additional.

[WillieC]

Your setup is not exactly standard, though it is original. Hetek sent you to the correct piece that bolts onto the end of the skeg pipe, which has a shoulder to hold and center it. The original design was for the one bolt that holds the elbow piece (The lower rudder support) to be removed. Then the elbow could pull back less than a 1/4" and drop out of the way.
Once the tiller arm is removed at the top of the rudder shaft, the whole rudder drops down . You need about 30 inches clear from the stern to ground to remove the shaft.

There are other ways to to this, but this is the original design. My skeg shaft has been replaced at some point, or maybe just straightened and some fiberglass/epoxy work done to repair where it enters the hull. I do not know how far it extends into the hull or what, if any, inner attachment was built into it.

image001 (1).jpg

[dkirsop]

My advice is to stop stressing the lower strut. Avoid making the existing damage worse. Buy the pipe end and check to see if your proposed solution will work - I think it will. And then cut the solid round stock to drop the rudder. Keep enough of the round stock, if it is 316 stainless, to make a threaded adapter that will accept the pipe end. Good luck.

[Dieselram94]

Thank you for the replies. I called to the Albin parts store in Sweden today and was relieved that I could speak to someone who spoke English. I wasn’t sure that would happen, as I have no idea how common English is there. Anyways, I asked how come they list two separate upper bushings for the rudder post (no real descriptions online) and he told me Albin used two different size rudder posts and I must disassemble to determine which is needed. However seeing as my rudder needs some serious work I may just order both bushings and just throw the unneeded one on the shelf for whoever needs it in the future as shipping is almost $40.00 regardless if I order one or two bushings. So it’s kinda free in that regard. Also my tiller arm is very corroded at the point it clamps the rudder stock, so I’m soaking it daily with pb blaster. I think I can save it...I think...
One other thing to note is if I grab the rudder post from inside the boat and push and pull, I can hear the rudder move a bit in the lower bushing. So something is flexing a bit, maybe the hull just flexes a bit? However upper bushings seems reasonably tight with minimal play side to side. I plan to launch it Saturday so I’m hoping it doesn’t leak. I’ll fix it correctly in about a month, immediately if it leaks. I’ll just order everything tomorrow for it from Sweden. The gentleman I spoke to was very nice.

[dkirsop]

The rudder actually hangs from the tiller arm. The lower pipe elbow provides lateral support not vertical support so there is some movement at that point. A fibre washer, actually a bearing, goes between the tiller arm and the upper bushing.

[dkirsop]

You may have already viewed this thread but in case you haven't it provides information you may find helpful viewtopic.php?f=28&t=10756

[Dieselram94]

The rudder actually hangs from the tiller arm. The lower pipe elbow provides lateral support not vertical support so there is some movement at that point. A fibre washer, actually a bearing, goes between the tiller arm and the upper bushing.

I looked under tiller arm and saw the cider washer, and I have been soaking the tiller arm in pb blaster. I’m thinking it would be best to find a new tiller arm as well, preferably out of stainless or bronze. I’m defiantly going to be cutting through the pinch gap and bolt as the bolt is so corroded nothing will grab it.

I did look at that other thread and it’s very informative, but I’m a bit confused as the Albin store only sells the fiber bushings. Are these updated to take the place of the fiber washer and oring as well? It looks in the picture onlunebthe New bushings have the washer molded in and a groove for the oring to sit in instead of the separate stainless carrier? I guess I just really need to get mine apart.

[dkirsop]

Yes, I noticed that the new upper fibre bushing comes with the O-ring and groove. My bushing was in good condition so I simply replaced the old O-ring and used the stainless holder.

[tribologist]

You should be able to reuse the arm. Cast iron parts cleans up pretty good and you should be able to put a through bolt there to clamp with. Threaded holes has no place in that application. Get a really sturdy 2 arm puller and it will most likely come off with no problem (assuming you get the bolt out) . I would not hit it hard to get it loose. To much risk in causing other problems doing that.

You can also drill out the bolt head to make it loose. Its easy to drill into a socket cap screw. Just drill with a drill matching the hex size, once you at past the head it is pretty weak and you should be able to snap it, If not you need to drill with a drill larger than across the hex. You might need a close quarter drill but they are cheap at Harbor Freight. You might also be able to cut it with an abrasive wheel from the top as long as you are careful not cutting to deep and hurting the thrust bearing face on the tube. It does not matter if you cut a little into the shaft. If you have problem removing what's left in there you can send it down to me and I can drill it out for a through bolt using the milling machine. It's pretty hard to do without a drill press with a vice or a mill.

When you are at it, you might want to look at the clamp and see if you need to fix the geometry. I had to cut my bracket to make it work right but it might be specific for my hull. If the tab holding it had been a bit forward there would been no problem.

Ulf

[DesertAlbin736]

Whoa! That tiller arm looks nasty! To borrow a bit from Neil Young, 'rust never sleeps'! If it were me, if the PB lube doesn't work to break it loose then take a Dremel grinder & cut it off & have a new one fabricated from stainless steel flat stock. What were they thinking using mild steel in that application?

[Dieselram94]

You should be able to reuse the arm. Cast iron parts cleans up pretty good and you should be able to put a through bolt there to clamp with. Threaded holes has no place in that application. Get a really sturdy 2 arm puller and it will most likely come off with no problem (assuming you get the bolt out) . I would not hit it hard to get it loose. To much risk in causing other problems doing that.

You can also drill out the bolt head to make it loose. Its easy to drill into a socket cap screw. Just drill with a drill matching the hex size, once you at past the head it is pretty weak and you should be able to snap it, If not you need to drill with a drill larger than across the hex. You might need a close quarter drill but they are cheap at Harbor Freight. You might also be able to cut it with an abrasive wheel from the top as long as you are careful not cutting to deep and hurting the thrust bearing face on the tube. It does not matter if you cut a little into the shaft. If you have problem removing what's left in there you can send it down to me and I can drill it out for a through bolt using the milling machine. It's pretty hard to do without a drill press with a vice or a mill.

When you are at it, you might want to look at the clamp and see if you need to fix the geometry. I had to cut my bracket to make it work right but it might be specific for my hull. If the tab holding it had been a bit forward there would been no problem.

Ulf

Thank you for the offer to drill it out, I may just take you up on that.

I assume the rudder shaft is just round with no relief that the bolt keys into? I do have a large two arm puller to pull it off with. I’m a bit confused however about the geometry issue. Is there a issue with the cable attachment or something? If something’s wrong I certainly want to fix it.

[Dieselram94]

Yes, I noticed that the new upper fibre bushing comes with the O-ring and groove. My bushing was in good condition so I simply replaced the old O-ring and used the stainless holder.

I don’t feel any slop in my bushing, but once I get it apart the bushing May be in bad condition. My pipehead for the bottom of the rudder will be here next week. I’m hoping I can just replace the oring as well and clean everything up.