Thoughts on this Albin 28

[sbbcc]

Im going to look at an Albin next week and wanted some insight on this boat. I talked with the broker today and had a few unanswered question. He said it was cruising at 12.2 knots @ 3000 RPM and a top speed of 19 knots @ 3750 with a Yanmar 300. He said the trim tabs aren't currently working but that cruising speed seems on the slow side in comparison to what others are getting. Any insight on this or anything else you see on this boat would be appreciated.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/Albin-28-Tournament-Express-3213433/Long-Beach/CA/United-States#.WzVT3y-ZPOQ

[Russell]

If those numbers are correct that is the slowest Albin 28 I have heard of. Even my previous 97 model with a Cummins 250hp would cruise at 17-18 knots. I would be cautious.

[sbbcc]

Could this be prop related or would it be more a transmission concern?

[RobS]

Overpropped/Overloaded and an OEM gauge cluster with a tach that is notorious for being inaccurate (it reads high) and it is not adjustable. Put a phototach on the engine, no doubt the true numbers and lack of WOT rpms (and poor performance) is worse than it appears now. Could the bottom and running gear be fouled?

99% the engine serial numbers are in the exhaust valve issue era. Probably been rectified already or she’d have swallowed a valve by now..

[Jaredh]

That boat looks well optioned, but the price seems high for a boat with some questions surrounding the drivetrain. Isla with a 315 Yanmar hits 19knots at 3300rpm when empty and still cruises 17-18 with 300 lbs of ice, 3 guys and gear for an offshore overnight.

I would also be concerned that if the trim tabs aren't working, what else is inop? I know I use my tabs very frequently, and they are critical in a head sea.

[sbbcc]

From what I understand the only thing that is not working are the tabs. Ill have a better idea once I see it Monday. The seller is "very motivated" so 75k is likely to have some wiggle room.

[Norseman]

Im going to look at an Albin next week and wanted some insight on this boat. I talked with the broker today and had a few unanswered question. He said it was cruising at 12.2 knots @ 3000 RPM and a top speed of 19 knots @ 3750 with a Yanmar 300. He said the trim tabs aren't currently working but that cruising speed seems on the slow side in comparison to what others are getting. Any insight on this or anything else you see on this boat would be appreciated.

I can help:

Got the same model year and the same motor: 6LP-STE, 300 HP.
Yes, 3000 RPM, with half load will yield about 12.5 to 13.5 knots and 2 NM per gallon; With trim tabs working that is and at that speed it needs bow high.
The above is medium cruise.
High cruise is 3600 RPM and 16.5 to 17 Knots and 10 to 11 Gallons per hour.
Max speed for this boat and motor if propped correctly and less than half load, 20.5 Knots. (Or 23.5 mph if you are a landlubber:)
Easy to get higher speeds if you are over propped, but these high speed Yanmars don’t not like abuse at all and will implode if abused.
Check maintenance records, they better be detailed, then some.
I had my boat surveyed 3 weeks ago and the verdict was $79.5k with the good Maintenance, equipment, spares, etc.
905 hrs, considering selling as I could use a bigger boat for my charter business and Bahamas trips.
See my previous threads on this boat since I bought it: Cream Puff and maintained with an open check book by 2 anal owners.

[Sisu22]

So it sounds like maybe the broker is quoting you 12 kt for 3,000 RPM cruise, which is on the low end of the cruise range.

[Capt Brad]

Sbbcc,

My 2006 with yanmar 6lp Cruises at 14.5 - 15 kts at 3200 cruise. I was told by Ken Hilton of Standish boatyard who was the the main Albin dealer in RI near where they were built to cruise at 3200. I burn 5.2 gal per hour. I created a spread sheet to track hours, gallons, and added Nm and mpg this year. I’m trying to see if I am better at 3200 or 3300 cruise. I top out at 3950 about 20kts or so. My numbers seem to close to Norseman. Jared on Isla seems to have higher speed which indicate over pitch. There are a lot of variables - what is cruise anyway? How accurate are your instruments. My chief engineers always told me 75-80% load is proper loading. Are you bucking or running with currents. Without a measured mile and multiple readings both directions averaged you got nothing. If I run at 3300, My speed goes to 15 -16 Kts. I doubt the developed hp is much different with a 100 Rpm increase. A lot of boats have different props. The only true way to see loading is to put a torque meter and run at your desired rpm and determine the actual HP developed and compare to specs and curves and at full load. If you developed rated hp, there is no issue. If you are under rated hp and speed, you need more prop. I can run through Woods hole at 3200 and jump from 14-15 to over 17 or drop to 11kts. You can get lost in these numbers. Unless you are racing l like one of my old chief engineers which his lobster boat in Maine, does it really matter if you in the ball park?

[hatchetjoe]

One thing I would check on is the tuna door on the stern. It looks like the door is missing and a board has been put in its place. You also have to decide if you want the Alaskan bulkhead or not. Someone on this site said it was about an $8,000 option. I made on offer on a 28TE with the bulkhead and later ended up buying a 28TE without a bulkhead. At this time I'm happy to not have the bulkhead because the bulkhead makes it a challenge to get into the pilothouse from the port side of the deck with the engine box sitting so close. The bulkhead would be great if you were planning on spending a lot of time in cold weather though.

[Jaredh]

Sbbcc,

My 2006 with yanmar 6lp Cruises at 14.5 - 15 kts at 3200 cruise. I was told by Ken Hilton of Standish boatyard who was the the main Albin dealer in RI near where they were built to cruise at 3200. I burn 5.2 gal per hour. I created a spread sheet to track hours, gallons, and added Nm and mpg this year. I’m trying to see if I am better at 3200 or 3300 cruise. I top out at 3950 about 20kts or so. My numbers seem to close to Norseman. Jared on Isla seems to have higher speed which indicate over pitch. There are a lot of variables - what is cruise anyway? How accurate are your instruments. My chief engineers always told me 75-80% load is proper loading. Are you bucking or running with currents. Without a measured mile and multiple readings both directions averaged you got nothing. If I run at 3300, My speed goes to 15 -16 Kts. I doubt the developed hp is much different with a 100 Rpm increase. A lot of boats have different props. The only true way to see loading is to put a torque meter and run at your desired rpm and determine the actual HP developed and compare to specs and curves and at full load. If you developed rated hp, there is no issue. If you are under rated hp and speed, you need more prop. I can run through Woods hole at 3200 and jump from 14-15 to over 17 or drop to 11kts. You can get lost in these numbers. Unless you are racing l like one of my old chief engineers which his lobster boat in Maine, does it really matter if you in the ball park?

I may be mistaken, but if I am able to reach max RPM (3800) at over 23kts wouldn't that indicate I'm "propped" just about right?

I just reviewed my survey and ran full throttle briefly Monday on the way out fishing with a full load because your comment had me worried I was overloading the engine.

Survey was performed by James Hilton at Standish Boat Yard with Ken Hilton running the boat. Here are the RPMS and Speeds noted:

"SEATRIAL DATA:
RPM Oil Press (psi) Temp(f) SOG(kts)
1000 50 100 5.6
1500 50 125 6.5
2000 55 135 8.2
2500 60 160 10.6
3000 55 175 15.7
3800(wot) 60 175 23.2

The engine started easily and ran smoothly throughout the entire range of throttle. Temperatures, pressures, and speeds observed are considered normal. No abnormal vibration was felt."

I have hit over 24kts running with low fuel and water. Fully loaded on Monday with all the offshore gear on the boat hit 21kts and change. Interestingly, I have seen some posts from the original owner, Jack Kade, that show she has slowed down significantly over the years. Who knows if this is due to fairness of the hull, engine losing some ponies, or the boat gaining weight in gear, parts and tools that tend to accumulate on board.

I was wondering it the mounting of the engine further forward and the smaller rudder have any impact on speed as well. I know when I want to get a skiff on plane I move forward, perhaps flush decks get over the hump faster?

Who knows, just more info and ramblings.

[Tree]

Jared

Propeller wear can and will make a significant difference - I have played around with propellers on my 28 over the last five years and had mixed results.

I started the season with a propeller i had developed for the albin using modern techniques which was 20.5" dia by 19.5" pitch with a 3 cup. This originally sat the boat at 18-19 knot cruise with 24 knots WOT. I had the propeller sent away this year for it to be polished up and when launched i could not achieve WOT and had a maximum speed of 21 knots.

Went back to the original 18 year old propeller after having it tuned - 19 x 19 with a 5 cup and achieved WOT at 25 knots and a cruise of 18-19 knots with just me on the boat with full water and fuel.

Incidentally i took a friends Albin out for a sea trial a few weeks back and was surprised how poor his boat performed - he now has my developed 20.5" prop and is seeing WOT at 23 knots which he has never seen ( his boat is heavier with generator and air con etc) The stern of the boat is now lifting up better and the boat is howling - I can't see me getting that propeller back if i am honest!

I will be having another propeller made in the near future - 19" x 18 or 18.5" pitch with a 5 cup as this is where i think the sweet spot will be.

[Tom Cunningham]

As a So-Cal guy some of my favorite features on my former 28 was the extended hardtop-soft back, flush deck and easy 18-19 mph cruise. All the very few west coast models available I looked at had a priced in premium for already being here. I went for the much greater east coast selection and shipping. Best of luck, Tom.

[Capt Brad]

Jared,

by your numbers, you are carrying a tad more prop than me. WOT for me 3950 at 20-22 kts, you seem to be 3800 at 24kts. All the info you listed, I seem to be about 200 rpm higher for same speed and I have slightly lower speed WOT. . I would not be worried. Yanmar may have a range of top RPM. My old yamaha was 4500-5500 range and I was propped for 5000 rpm in the middle. The way Albin played around with things, may be why we all have slightly different numbers. Like I said, too easy to get lost in the numbers. Didn't mean to alarm you.

[Capt Brad]

Everyone,
Nothing like looking at the manual! According to it, the 6lp-std rated rpm is 3800.
That means, I am slightly under propped since I ca hit 3900-3950. Since I never run at WOT, I can accept less speed and less fuel consumption! I am fortunate to have all original documentation! Ah lost in numbers.....time to smoke some ribs!