Aquadrive in a 27?

[SkipD]

Wondering if anyone has installed an Aquadrive (or Python-drive) in a FC 27. If so, which model to what engine, installation comments, performance comments?
Thanks

[Sprig1]

Hi Skipd I keep looking at the Aquadrive to. What type of engine do you have? I have the 4-d61 in my boat. I was thinking about a flex coupling they are $300.00 I think. I'm trying to put a dripless stuffing box in there two. There is not much room from the transmission to the stuffing box. Let me know your thoughts. Chris

[SkipD]

Am in the process of repowering and will go with probably a Beta Marine 43 or a Nanni N4.40. From my preliminary measurements it looks like plenty of room between the transmissin and the middle support bearing on the shaft. Will know more in the next few weeks on the Aquadrive measurements. Will post what Happens.
Was also considering a dripless stuffing box where there should be lots of room, same with a flex coupling on the transmission too.

[tego]

SkipD, I'm in the same process. Who are you working with at Beta? The 43, 50 and 60 are virtually the same size so I'm opting for the 60 because of the better torque and lower RPM. I currently have a drivesaver behind my Nissan which I will be using again. I don't have a middle support bearing on my shaft, which is 1 1/2". I've physically looked at all 3 of these engines and was really impressed with the thought that went into them. They are the epitome of the KISS rule! Ben

[SkipD]

I've been working directly with Stanley at Beta. He's been very good responding to many questions over the past few months. I have a 1.25" shaft, probably reason for the center support bearing. My objectives for the re-power have been reliability, quiet, simplicity and the ability to cruise at hull speed under general New England summer conditions. The extra power would have pushed the speed up a few knots and it would be nice in many situations, but I guess being a sailor for 30 years makes 6.5 kts in a straight(er) course seem fantastic.
In the Beta vs Nanni research they both are reported as technically very good engines. They're both based on the Kubota V2003. I've searched many user forums for anecdotal user information and both brands have strong technical kudos. The big difference appears to be in customer service, parts and warranty/commissioning process. Beta U.S. is praised, Nanni U.S. is not. Still have a few people to talk with before the final decision.
Absolutely agree with KISS rule (and the Beta Marine approach).

[SkipD]

Ben-

Am curious about your Beta repower. My FC also has a Nissan LD28 so the engine bed must be similiar. Are you getting special feet made? Also, what prop do you plan on using.
I plan on finalizing my Beta selection this week and will probably get the 50. Too many benefits for just a bit more money.

Skip

[tego]

Skip, I think we're totally different on the engine bed. In 1987, Albin redesigned a lot on the 27FC. The pilothouse got flanges around the outside perimeter, the helm console became a "swing out" design, the stringers were enlarged and respaced to about 31" apart (center to center) which required installing 6"x4"x1/2" thick angle iron (aluminum) inside the stringers to allow the Nissan engine mounts (at 21" apart in width). They also increased the shaft diameter to 1 1/2" and removed the intermediate shaft bearing. I think the ER "beef-up" was to better allow installation of the monster engines for the "sport" models. I saw pictures of some earlier models than mine where the Nissan mounts were mounted on top of the smaller stringers. I intend to install the 22" mounts on my Beta and they'll sit on my current aluminum brackets perfectly. I'm still pondering the new prop. I think I'll go with a 18x17 or 19, 4 blade (RH). My current prop is a 18x14 4-blade (LH). I need to increase the pitch a tad because the Nissan is such a high revving engine compared to the Beta. I'm getting several different opinions from the prop shops so I think I'll just go with logic. All I want is hull speed at about 1800 - 1900 RPM (max torque on the Beta 60). Have you researched the subject yourself? What do you think? Ben

[DesertAlbin736]

Not much to contribute here guys, since I'm an A25 guy. But that said my boat came with a 24 HP Yanmar 3GM30F & AquaDrive from a previous owner's 1990 repower job. I will say it's a very quiet & nearly vibrationless installation. I got a ride last year on another A25 Deluxe semi displacement version (mine's early full displacement, hence a smaller engine) that had a 36 HP Volvo MD17C with direct tranny to prop shaft coupling. The difference in noice & vibration level was shocking. I think if you can & do decide to go with AquaDrive or similar CV joint/thrust bearing you'll be glad you did.

DSCN3674.JPG

[DesertAlbin736]

Tego,

By the way, do you happen to know anyone from any of the yacht clubs around Knoxville? I have a cousin named Rodney Meryweather who lives in Knoxville & races a C&C 32 (or maybe 34?) sailboat on the Little Tennessee.

[tego]

Desert Albin, Sorry, I'm not a yacht club kinda guy. You sure he races on the Little Tenn? It's not wide enough to race a 34 on. Most of the sailboats race on the Tennessee River on Watts Bar Lake. They have probably 200 sailboats in one area up there and range up to 45'. They race almost every weekend I hear. I cruise up there quite often though. Ben

[SkipD]

Thanks Desert Albin for the input on the Aquadrive. Your experience coincides with other comments I've picked up.
Ben - thanks for the description on the engine beds. Makes sense with the evolution of engines in the 27 that they would beef them up. Mine are approximately 19.5 center to center and will require some attention for the re-power.
Put my deposit down on a Beta 50 yesterday at the Maine Boatbuilders show. Had a good conversation with Stanley of Beta Marine on my installation, warranty related questions, delivery requests, etc. Am very pleased so far.
Regarding props-torque-hp-rpm, this has been a big learning curve for this aging sailor. The Nissan had a Hurth (2.74:1) gear and a 3 blade, 50% BAR, RH, 18 x 17 prop. It did about 6.5 kts at 1800 rpm, 7kts at 2000 and 7.5 at 2200. Fuel consumption was in the .5 to .75 gph range at those rpm. That was a known reference point, my objective essentially to replicate that with a smaller engine and no desire to get above 9 kts.
To educate myself I read some of Dave Gerr's Propeller Book, got feedback from Stanley at Beta, H&H propeller (my local prop people in Salem MA) and web sites (http://www.psychosnail.com/boatspeed, in particular).
Pulling this together, the selection of the 50 (TMC 2:1 gear) with a 18 x 13, 50% BAR, 3 Blade prop should put me into reliable 6.5 to 7 kts cruising at about 2000 rpm. The H&H and Beta Marine analyses were very close to each other, so I think this is a good starting point.
Additionally, there was a great article I came upon (Passage Maker, Nov/Dec 2014, "In Praise of Oversizing, Big Pros of Oversizing Propellers Far Outweigh the Cons" Nigel Calder, it's also available here https://www.proboat.com/2014/07/praise-for-big-props/). Good food for thought. Skip

[tego]

Skip, I also had the Nissan with the Hurth 250-3R tranny with the same ratio but it turned an 18x14 LH 4-blade. Are you sure that yours was a RH? I'm using my old tranny. Your speed-RPM ratios are exactly what I'm looking for so I guess i should go with your old prop size, in a 3-blade The 4-blade is smoother and better maneuvering at low speeds but definitely falls behind the 3 above about 1800 RPM. I'm also an old sailor and it's tough to teach this old dog these new tricks. I agree that 6.5 knots in a straight line is flyin'. Ben

[SkipD]

Ben - I double checked the prop and it is RH. As verification, I was lucky enough to have copy of a work card from my prop people who actually serviced the prop many years ago. The original prop on the boat was a 18x14 RH 3 blade, that owner replaced it with 18x17. Also during my research I inquired about using the Hurth on the new engine (38 or 43 HP). Stanley recommended against it, one reason being resale, but more importantly because he said the engine rpms were too low for that gear ratio and it would require too large a prop for the boat. Not sure how a 60 HP would factor into that. You might contact Stanley to get his analysis of your configuration too. Skip