Winterizing MD17 question

[kerrye]

My BIL just bought an A25 with an MD17 in Kentucky and is towing it home to NY. He's not sure if the engine has been winterized. Can anyone familiarize me with the winterizing process on that engine so I can let him know? Is it raw water cooled or fresh water cooled? Should he pull the hose off the raw water intake and suck in antifreeze? Or is there a simple way of draining the system?

Edit; It may not be the MD 17. It's a 3 cylinder Volvo but that could be a 3b I think.

[kerrye]

This is a photo of the engine. Is there a way to drain the block without sucking antifreeze thru the engine.

albin ky5.jpg

[WillieC]

There are cylinder drains on the starboard side of each cylinder. Since this engine appears not to have a heat exchanger, these cylinder drains need to be opened and maybe poked to drain all the water. It may be easier to remove each fitting, rather than trying to open them. There is also a similar fitting on the bottom of the aft end of the exhaust manifold. Removing the highest hose will give air to the system for it to bleed.. Removing the thermostat cover at the front end of the ex manifold might be good as well.
Loosen the cover of the raw water pump at the aft end of the engine below the injection pump, next to the fuel lift pump. Follow the hoses back to the raw water strainer and arrange them to drain. There is also likely to be water in the muffler. With luck it will be a new lift style that may have a drain screw in it. If it is the old elastomuffler, let 'er rip and replace it next spring. Then drain the bilge. There is a bronze plug with a very fine thread on the port side of the keel in the general area of the stuffing box. Straight blade. Careful careful, don't lose that sucker. Might need an impact wrench to loosen it, but be gentle as it is bronze.

Then take a look at head, fresh water tank, and waste tank. Antifreeze or drain as needed. Some antifreeze is hard on joker valve at head, answered elsewhere on the forums.

The MD17C and MD3B engines are near identical on these points. Good luck!

[kerrye]

Thanks for those detailed instructions. I've passed them along to my BIL.

[DesertAlbin736]

BIL????...{crickets}....Oh! Duh! {face palm} Brother In Law! No particular dog in this hunt, but assume the boat staying on the trailer over the winter? NY! Brrrr! Having moved out here from Saratoga County 40 years ago, I imagine they're already getting frost.

[WillieC]

Moving from Saratoga to Phoenix ought to solve the winterizing question for sure!

Note to Kerrye and BIL. I think that is an MD17C. The 3B has another pair of exposed head nuts (and studs) on the intake side of each valve cover. Six total for each 3B head, 4 for each 17C.

[DesertAlbin736]

Moving from Saratoga to Phoenix ought to solve the winterizing question for sure!

That it did. Other parts of AZ like Flagstaff & the high country are not immune from freezing. Theoretically one could spend a January morning skiing in Flagstaff, then be back in time for an afternoon round of golf in 60 degree sunshine in Phoenix.

[kerrye]

Good info on identifying the different engines. Desert you were yards from my BIL’s house when you were on the Erie heading for Lyons

[WillieC]

The single big advantage of the MD17C over the MD3B is that the 17C has replaceable cylinder sleeves. Around $700 a cylinder, which includes new sleeve, piston, rings, gudgeon pin, and maybe even the o-rings that separately run about $150 per hole.
Vs. the 3B, you would need to overbore the cylinders and buy new pistons for about $500 a pop. If they are still available.

There was a new-in-crate 17C in SoCal sitting in a warehouse for around 6 large that I debated for quite a while. Too many unknowns and a long drive for me. I'm no expert, but I have had most of the 17C laying in pieces on the bench. Happy to share what I can.

[kerrye]

Willie, do either or both of those engines have a cold start button which needs to be activated when cold starting?

[WillieC]

The "Cold Start" function is semi-automatic. (The process is the same on both engines, 3B and 17C.) However, the 3B has no fuel shut-off cable to pull when you want to kill the engine. Instead it has a spring loaded throttle stop that you override (pull throttle harder back) that shuts off fuel inside the injector pump. The 17C has a separate cable you pull that does essentially the same thing, only no matter the position of the throttle. (I'm getting there, hang on.)

The cold start function, since there are no glow plugs, dumps a ton of fuel into the engine and that does the trick. Maybe it raises the compression briefly and the cylinders heat up quickly, not really sure of the physics, but it works, especially if your engine has ok compression.

To make the cold start function work:
Engine off, pull throttle cable all the way back. Lowest setting.
Advance throttle cable to about 1/2 physical position.
Crank engine and keep your hand on the throttle.
As soon as it fires, the engine will go to grenade speed, so pull back on the throttle so it doesn't.
Set throttle to 800-1000 rpm (my practice), let it warm up just a bit, not too much.
Throttle back to idle, around 750, and check both forward and reverse before casting off.

Now, how does it work? You haven't asked, but it is helpful to know if you are slightly mechanically curious.

Basically the way it works is that there is a small pin inside the governor housing, that changes position by presence of engine running oil pressure. The pin limits the high throttle setting. With the engine off, the pin relaxed, by moving the throttle above the half-way position, the high speed setting is free to go to max because it is beyond the point where the pin is able to limit the high setting when it goes erect when the oil pressure comes up. That is why you keep your hand on the throttle and pull it back when she fires. You are moving the internals of the linkage that pulls the high speed stop far enough back so the oil pressure controlled pin pops into position and prevents the engine from grenading. Simple, right? It only took me three years to figure it out!

A couple points more. You can see the oil line that controls this device since it is external. It leaves the oil galley near the camshaft bearings on the starboard side of the engine and wraps back up and over the rear of the engine and comes around to the port side of the governor housing. It is at this point where some recommend applying air pressure, not much, to test the function of the pin. Of course, you have to have things opened up a bit and suspect problems with the function. The main problem would be that you have no control overspeed condition. The other issue would be that the pin is stuck in the erect position for more than four hours, in which case....

When we first got the WillieC, we were only told how to hold our lips when we tried to start the cold engine. The Starfleet Commander remembered certain details that I missed and I couldn't square what she remembered with the description in the Albin Handbook. That description is very simple and is accurate, only it doesn't describe how it works at all, which is perfectly fine, but it must be followed if it is going to work. New (to us), sitting all winter, leaky fuel line seals, horribly low compression, likely lost priming of the fuel system, and weak battery, all made it extremely difficult to start and to even begin trouble shooting. I chalked it all up to Diesels In General, and figured that this is just how it is. Maybe that was why we had two extra starters that came with the boat. They just burn up on General Principle, and maybe the Swedes weren't so bright after all. Au contraire!

There was nothing wrong with the cold start device, you just have to make sure you set the throttle far enough forward (you could throw it all the way forward, just keep your hand on it). But first, take care of all the other stuff. Here, four years later I am still dealing with leaky seals and in fact just found yesterday the real source of fuel leak, a small pinhole n the tube that runs from the fuel lift pump to the filter housing. Thought it was banjo bolt copper rings, and I almost stripped those bolts trying to get the leaks to quit. Priming with the little lever on the lift pump is tricky, especially with a forty year old pump and the position of the camshaft relative to the fuel pump. Even understanding how to prime is bad enough. Go ahead and make sure a steady stream of fuel is coming out the bleed ports. You have all year to clean it up. You'll need it.

Engine compression is the least problem. If you know the engine ran before, don't mess with compression testing at this point. Change the filters, clean the housing, using pristine fuel, prime the system, set the throttle and she might start. Once I figured all this out, our ancient 3B with horrible compression started every time in one or two engine revolutions. That's why I waited so long to replace it, it ran so good and started so easily, how could there be anything wrong with it? Until antifreeze showed up in the oil pan.

Long story, I hope this helps. These old Volvo Pentas have my respect.

[kerrye]

Thanks for all that detailed info. One nugget on the copper washers on banjo bolts. If you want to reuse them (typically procedures call for new ones) you can anneal them with a propane plumbing torch and they become useable again.