MD17C in A25

[WillieC]

More tweaking. Backed super secret screw out about 3/4 of a turn and can now get 2500 rpm under load. Doesn't go much faster but really throws the water and raises the bow. I may have to install trim tabs! The interior cabinets are rattling where they haven't in a long time. Easy, cowboy.

This is about as fast as I want the high speed stop set at. Book says 2600, close enough for a forty-five year old engine. The revs stop at 2500 before the linkage hits the high speed stop. I can get more by backing the screw out more. Not sure how much smoking it is doing so I plan on doing the Italian tune-up as soon as I can find something solid enough to tie her up to. That way I can stand on the swim step and keep an eye on the exhaust. Right now it starts great and idles down perfectly. I may need to back the screw out farther to get it to smoke. There is a bit of a haze at idle. I would call it blue/white and not appreciably different than earlier settings, except that it doesn't want to stall.

Stand by for news!

[kerrye]

What exactly does the screw do? I'm not familiar with external fuel adjustment screws on an injection pump.

[WillieC]

My closest description was a couple posts back. The screw is under the cover with the lump on it at the aft end of the governor housing, which housing also holds the injection pump. The screw is directly connected to the cold start device and limits the travel of the rack on the injection pump via the linkage when the cold start device is in normal running operation, that is, erect. The screw is not directly connected to the injection pump. Clear as mud eh? Don't forget the governor and throttle cable is also intertwined with all this, each giving its respective input to the fuel put out by the injection pump, via the linkage.

Cold start, when the oil pressure has dropped to zero, engine off, the pin goes limp. You, the operator, are supposed to advance the throttle setting to about half throttle before cranking. Since the cold start pin is not pressurized, it is not sticking out and allows the linkage to open the rack on the injector pump to dump a lot of fuel to the injectors. The linkage is pulled by a small spring. Seems backwards, but that is how it is. The spring makes the linkage open the rack on the injector pump. That is how VP got away without installing glow plugs for cold start. The engine starts and goes to 3000 rpm if you let it. Immediately pull back on the throttle lever, which moves the linkage back to where the now pressurized and fully erect cold start pin slides into place and prevents the linkage to the injector pump from dumping all that fuel and racing the cold engine.

From my limited experience here is what I have found:
1. I adjusted the setting per the book while the engine was in the shop. I had a hell of a time starting it way back then. The description in the book is very specific giving measurements to the thousandth of an inch. But that description is cryptic, at least it was to me. Bench running the engine in the shop was disappointing to say the least since it was so hard to start and that's when I adapted DKirsop's glow plug arrangement. Then I fooled around with the linkage with the bulbous cover off and found that if I tugged on the injection pump rack shaft I could really control the throttle.
2. At first splash, I was committed since I was using a boat ramp a few miles from our property as the tides weren't right to launch at the house. I could barely get it to run under power and when I tried to throttle it down to idle it wanted to die, so I was jamming the transmission and further exacerbating the already stressful situation. But it ran ok at 1700, good enough to limp it home.
3. Spent the next day looking at the two spare engines in the shop trying to figure out what the heck was wrong. I also made two phone calls, one to the injection shop and one to an acquaintance up in Anacortes who recently rehabbed his 17C. Armed with this new font of wisdom, I went out to the mooring ball and backed the screw out "2 or 3 turns". I should have paid more attention. It ran like a million bucks. Lots of throttle, good idling, easy start. Could I have achieved perfection with my first wild guess? I didn't think so either. I ran it thusly for ten hours, puttering around the Canal, staying close to home in the event of breakdown. Like I could row it home with the dinghy. Right? Oil changed, valves adjusted.
4. Decided I would try to lean it down by screwing the screw in one turn. No appreciable change in performance. Still keeping revs under 2000 not wishing to throw a nice new rod bearing. Ran it another ten hours at this setting and decided we had enough hours on it to see where the high end was. This was when I found I could only get about 2200 rpm out of it. Too lean. So...
5. Per Don's suggestion, I backed the screw out a half turn yesterday and ran it this am. After it warmed up I could get 2350 out of it. So I backed out another quarter turn and got 2500. All the while looking for smoke at the higher revs and not convinced I am seeing it yet. I am still not limiting the high end with the stop at the control cable. It is the injection pump that is limiting the high rev. (Note the 2500 is under load. With no load I can get more than I want. The book says to limit high rev at 2600, not that I plan to ever run the boat that high, only while testing it now.)

I think I need to enrich the setting more, i.e. back it out some more, mainly so I can see some serious smoke under a heavy high rev load. That is why I mentioned doing the Italian tune-up: tying her off and letting her rip and see where I truly am. Also, I think I should be able to set the high limit while under no load, if I ever get the fuel volume correct. It makes sense to me that that is exactly what the governor is supposed to compensate for. Pick your rpm and let the governator do all the work. I think I am still too lean.

Long answer, Kerry, I know. Forgive me, I am still working this out in my head and on the boat. Short answer? The screw limits the travel of the injector rack. When the rack is all the way in, forward, no fuel comes out per stroke. When the rack is all the way out, astern, lots of fuel is delivered per stroke. We can talk about injectors another time.

[kerrye]

I'm confused by that last section. I can see how that screw can allow fuel to flow at idle but I don't see how it can enrich or lean the mixture. Isn't that all determine by the volume of the piston in the injection pump and the amount of time the injectors are open delivering fuel? So I have my doubts that that screw will ever do anything to produce black smoke at high rpm's. I may be mistaken.

[WillieC]

I think you are right Kerry. I am convoluting a couple functions. My fiddling with the screw is bearing this out. The fuel per stroke is what you take the pump in for service for. And reseal. All that was checked at Hand H injector service. The screw affects how far the rack travels, i.e. how much the valves in the pump are opened. That's what makes it go faster, more fuel.

Under load, the governor kicks in and advances the rack even further, to maintain rpm and I think that is where the black smoke should show up.

I am just confused why the book gives such a specific setting for this screw, and why such a goofy description of how to adjust it. I am getting higher top end out of my adjustments with no discernible low idle effect. Makes sense. The rack is traveling further.

Thanks for your input. Like I said, I am still trying to sort this out. She is running well, I must say. Maybe I should quit fooling around with it.

[WillieC]

Just finished a full week of Hood Canal/Puget sound road trip (water trip?). Haven't got the numbers right in front of me but the return trip from Bellingham logged about 20 hours total (15 in one day!) for a grand total of over 40 hours in 7 days. One day we holed up due to small craft advisory. We should have taken two, but then again what would we have learned?

Results? Here's a pic of the gauges. The only ones that moved were the tach, fuel gauge and temp gauge. I can actually watch the thermostat open.

IMG_0976.JPG

Burned about half a quart of oil, maybe. Fuel consumption stats awaiting report from CBO. Absolutely no coolant loss issues. Transmission oil leak resolved by swapping fill/disptick cap with one that didn't have the "aftermarket" vent hole drilled in it. Infinitesimal fuel leak at lift pump, more annoying than problematic to be fixed this winter.

We ran at 1750 rpm mostly, Starfleet Commander prefers the economy of 1650 because that's what the previous owner said. o-kaaayyyee.... Ran 2200 to try to get ahead of the looming Small Craft Advisory. More later on that. Blew up to 2400 to get out the way of the departing Clinton ferry on Whidbey Island. Only one time, after the 15 hour run, did it not take to slow idling. She may have needed more of a cooling off period coming into harbor.

For all that, the consensus is we no longer have a two-hour boat. The VP MD17C poor man's rebuild did not miss a lick, never failed to start within a couple revolutions of flywheel and never gave a moment's hesitation in some pretty rockin and rollin seas. One of which was bad enough to dislodge the anchor and straighten the triangle steel keeper loop.

The anchor was doing its best to bash a hole in the bow, hanging over the rubrail in 6' seas with very short spacing. I, in my role as Scotty and not being the Starfleet Commander, was elected to retrieve and secure the wayward anchor before it gnawed a hole in the hull. I was more worried about losing it over the side once I found that the triangle loop had straightened and went AWOL and the only thing holding it aboard was that a link of the anchor chain had caught in the mooring line guide on the starboard side. I was airborne in the v-berth with my upper body hanging out the hatch holding onto the anchor with all my strength wondering how in the heck I was supposed to free it, retrieve it and somehow secure it between 3 second swells that felt more like 3 millisecond. And not let Puget Sound come pouring into the v-berth or washing me over with the next swell. An engine hickup at that moment would not have gone over well. I think my fastidiousness paid off and that moment made it all worthwhile. I was able to time a clean and jerk to free the chain, another swell to drag myself and the anchor into the v-berth, and another swell to secure the hatch. No bashed fingers, no blood, all in the day of the life for an A25. I will be looking to y'all for how are you securing your anchors hanging out there in the breeze on a fine summer's day. Maybe some pointers on gelcoat repair. Sharp, pointy jabs in the gelcoat. No big.

An astute observer would reasonably ask why we would put ourselves in such a situation. So would I, being a mildly astute observer myself. Ten minutes earlier we were in the shipping lanes just east of the mouth of Hood Canal in maybe 8 kt winds from the NW. Not a big deal as we were heading almost directly into them. The sun was shining, we were making great time able to use most of the winds and currents to our favor hoping to make Pleasant Harbor before sunset. We know the winds pick up late afternoons but it is called Foulweather Bluff for a reason. The tide was rising so I did not expect a problem with current coming back out of Hood Canal, but whatever it was for about fifteen minutes the seas rose and the period shortened, so I stayed the course into them rather than turning to port for my intended course toward Port Ludlow. Finally when I could see that my displacement hull was no longer slicing the water I backed off the throttle to try to lengthen the interval. Either that worked or the winds suddenly backed off and I was able to slightly return to my intended course into the Canal and was able to surf the swells, as much as one does in an A25. After that, we looked at each other and decided to continue on to Pleasant Harbor rather than slide into Port Ludlow. What else could the Canal throw at us?

With that, I think this thread on my rebuild is over, even though I will be tinkering it with it as long as we have it. This commissioning, week-long sea trial has raised a whole new pile of issues for us and I will likely start some new threads as we search for answers.

Thank you one and all for reading and weighing in and sharing your good, bad, and even ugly advice! (Beta Don, you were right, I can barely even FIND the run in the sagging paint job on the lower engine block!)

Cheers to all. Be very safe out there. What could possibly go wrong in the Puget Sound on a beautiful sunny day in the middle of a forty day stretch of impeccable weather?

[DesertAlbin736]

This has been a very fun, informative, & entertaining thread, probably one of the longest running (171 posts) in AOG history. Perhaps there's a bowsprit for mounting the anchor in your future? I think which ever one of our past PO's who installed a chain 'bobstay' from the bowsprit down to the bow eye did so in order to keep a swinging anchor from dinging up the hull. Certainly does not serve any function in supporting the bowsprit as a solid rod bobstay would.

A 15 hour run in one day, wow, that is quite a bit. We usually try to limit passages to no more than 30 NM or so per day. By coincidence our O'Day 25 cruise mates from last year just returned to Bellingham to haul out yesterday (Monday) after a month of cruising Puget Sound and going as far up as Victoria.


Anyway a fitting end to the "MD17C in A25" journey. Salud!

Now let's keep next year in mind. We meet in Fossil Bay or Echo Bay on Sucia Island (unless you trailer up to Blaine first) some time in June, head from Sucia up to Bedwell Harbour on South Pender to clear in Canadian Customs, hook up with dkirsop, make our way from there to Montague on Galiano and catch the party bus to Hummingbird Inn Pub for dinner.

PubBus-HummingbirdPub.jpg

From Montague go to Ladysmith, then Nanaimo, then Lasqueti Island, then Comox, then Campbell River, and finally Desolation Sound. After all, you have almost a year to work out any of the kinks revealed by the shakedown cruise. By the way, I'm constantly having to snug up the "banjo bolt" fittings which vibrate loose on the low pressure fuel line between lift pump and secondary filter to keep them from dripping small amounts of fuel.

[WillieC]

"Perhaps there's a bowsprit for mounting the anchor in your future?"

Being fairly new to all things boaty... I think I already have a bowsprit, with a roller at the end for the chain and rode. The anchor snugged into that and was held in place by the triangle shaped link that, when you pulled the anchor as far aft as possible while in the groove, hooked over the original Albin cleat. I can see where a bobstay, if I understand correctly, would tie the dangling end down to the bow eye and keep the anchor from swinging and possibly from popping off the bowsprit.

Interestingly, there are also three oddly shaped bronze pieces that are real toe stubbers attached to the top of the front deck that I discovered by looking at Hobbit/Hira's boat/the one for sale in Sacramento that are specifically for racking the originally supplied anchor and securing it to the deck. Actually I have only two of the pieces still intact. Someone (a DPO, no doubt) probably removed the rear piece to use as a door latch or some other 'creative ' use.

I agree, 15 hours is way too much, but one of us is still gainfully employed, sort of, at least has outside responsibilities and wanted to be back in time for a few days recuperation. Shorter hops on that route down the east side of Whidbey are short of interesting anchorages. Perhaps a bit too much exposure. We considered several other options: Everett, anchoring in the little bay near Possession Point on the south end of Whidbey, Cultus Bay, that's it, but the weather was so good we wanted to cross Admiralty inlet on a Sunday with no ship traffic and no fog! AND Pleasant Harbor has a hot tub!! How many disasters can be laid at the feet of "I gotta get somewhere"?

The searchers all say they'd've made Whitefish Bay if they'd put fifteen more miles behind her.

North, to Alaska! Next year! Good find on Drayton Harbor storage! Two long days, here we go again, could get us there, or a week in the San Juans then on to Desolation Sound. Do we really have to find out how DS got its name? I have had enough history lessons for a while. Let's give the Starfleet Commander some R&R before we push on that trip. Side note speaking of things north, we almost lost our dink too in the shuckstorm. Had it securely lashed to the top, but only with one line. I now use three points of attachment.

In a couple weeks, we will hit the South Sound, put in at Port Orchard and have a leisurely cruise tracing Peter Puget's routes as documented by Hira Reid. NO schedule, no hurry and lots of anchorages. Some described by Sail 149 whom I would love to catch up with while they are around. I think they are just about done. Check out his posts.

I will put together our recent route and post a bunch of pics. How does one go about drawing the red line on the chart and then uploading it?

[DesertAlbin736]

The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay if they'd put fifteen more miles behind her.

When the gales of November come early!

When you're time limited, trailering is the only way to go. That's why we have a 25 foot boat with 8.5 foot beam in the first place! In which case if you were willing to spend the money you could trailer up to Anacortes and take the Washington State ferry to Sidney and drive up Vancouver Island to launch at Campbell River. Or go up the mainland to Lund with a couple of short ferry crossings. Expensive, but could save a lot of time, cutting a 6 week cruise down to 2 weeks. Used to be you could park long term for free at Bellingham in the overflow lot behind the Redden Marine store, but now that's out since that property is getting developed. But you can still do the long term free parking in Blaine, so that's where we'll go next time.

Desolation Sound beckons!

DesSound.jpg

I will put together our recent route and post a bunch of pics. How does one go about drawing the red line on the chart and then uploading it?

Here's what I do to draw red lines on maps: First pull up the area on Google Maps or any other online chart image you want, then do Shift+PrtScn(ie Print Screen) on you keyboard. Then open Paint or some other drawing software, paste the screen image, crop out what you don't want, and draw your red (or any other color) course line, then save as a jpeg. Like this:

Cruisemap.jpg

Sounds like your anchor stowage setup is much like ours. On ours there's an L shaped slotted keeper at the back end of the roller thingy which you can hook the chain on. In addition to that we use a rubber bungie to hook between the crown of the anchor and the bow pulpit cross bar, like this. For good measure I wrap the chain one turn around the sheet winch that PO's installed at the back of the bowsprit before feeding it down the hawse pipe. We've been in some rough stuff too and never had any problems with the anchor coming loose. The bowsprit is a bit longer than I'd like, but I can't shorten it any more due to the winch being there and the idiots that installed it glued it down with 5200 adhesive.

DSCN3667.JPG

This is what it looked like when we first bought our boat, which IMO was insane. Who needs a 3 foot bowsprit to hang extra fuel jugs over the bow? For that matter, who needs jerry cans when you have a 200 mile range on the 20 gallon tank? Taking a saw to the bowsprit was the first mod I did. Still have the jerry cans if I ever need them.

Albin 2.jpg

The deck chocks you're talking about were probably for a Danforth style anchor.

Now when we drive back East later this month, should I make an offer on this $5,000 Saga 27 project boat to ship back and do a restoration and repower or overhaul the Perkins that's in it to keep up in Washington as our summer cruising home? I could just add the word "Summer" to the name make it "Elke Summer"

Saga27.jpg

[WillieC]

"Elke Summer"

Now that's beautiful. Who would get that reference? I love it. Will work on the drawing. Fuel consumption on our trip looks pretty darn good. Will update in new post.

Not sure how many boat projects I have left in me, but I love that double ender style. Now let's put two or three Cummin(g)s engines in it and blow by a few of the hot sh()ts, just because we can. (I know, I know, a few basic lessons of hull speed, semi-displacing/planing, etc. Just the evil twin inside me coming out.)

[DesertAlbin736]

Who would get that reference?

Only old farts like us. Or maybe fans of Peter Sellers movies.

[WillieC]

For those of you thinking of repowering your A25 or 27 or whatever, there is a really good post by Beta Don on this subject in JT's 27 Engine Room refit thread.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9166&p=63849#p63849

Page 8, scroll down to July 28.

I would add the following :

I spent too much for a boat that needed a new engine, but it came with a spare, that was almost as sad as the installed engine. I scrounged around and found another engine with usable parts and cobbled together a rebuild out of three engines that still came close to 5 large. I feel like I robbed a bank when compared to a new, new engine. 
The old iron, all 650 pounds of it, belongs in our boat. We just came through some rough seas on our first big trip and I wonder how she would have handled with a scrawny 250 pounder down there. Then again I am not a marine engineer. Or much of a boater, yet.
All said and done, we love OUR boat with all our blood, sweat, and tears in it. And I know where any issues may crop up and how to address them. No surprises.
This work is not for the faint of heart and the low of skill, but there is the youtube and you can learn if you know one end of a box/open wrench from the other. And have lots of time. And you are a bit OC. And can take setbacks. Maybe a bit masochistic thrown in there.
Cheers!

Then, in your spare time, read everything BetaDon has posted. That should be worth an associates degree in Boatiness at the very least. I tip my hat to him.

[WillieC]

Engine has at least 120 hours this summer and runs very well for a poorman's rebuild. A little oil burn at prolonged idling, but only added a quart in that first hundred. I can live with that.
What I am writing about today is that I finally got around to installing the autopilot. I got it from Acme, just like Wile. E. Coyote.

IMG_1219.JPG

[kerrye]

Curious about anchor securing methods also as I just added a bow roller. I currently have two pieces of nylon line with stainless clips holding the anchor. One from the pulpit crossbar to the mantus hoop and the other from the cleat to anchor shaft. It's bad news to have an anchor come loose

[WillieC]

Two things I now pay close attention to:
1. When the chain breaks loose, what prevents the anchor from falling.
2. When the anchor jumps out of the cradle.

So I just use a chunk of rope to provide a second way to prevent the anchor from falling, should the holding link bust. And throw several wraps of same rope around the anchor, tying it to the pulpit. No jumping allowed. Anchor deployment is slowed a bit, but not bad enough to forego. It's not perfect, you need to test it, yank on the rope, can it loosen just by moving? And don't go nuts with lots of knots, because the day will come when you need to drop the anchor, NOW!

I think the biggest thing we learned this summer is that things go wrong, and usually not in a nice sequential order. Plan redundancy and do the things you plan on getting to "Later". Everything goes south together when you are in heavy seas.