Oil/Temp Alarm Circuit Question

[stxray]

I'm just about finished the rewiring of my A25.

I've replaced the original main switches with a new Blue Sea M-Series battery switch and an automatic charging relay (ACR). When this switch is turned on, it connects the starter battery to the starting circuit and the house battery to the "house" system but, keeps them isolated. When the ACR senses charging, it distributes the charge to both batteries. When charging stops, the batteries are isolated again.

On my boat, in addition to the oil and temp warning lights, I have an audible alarm. The alarm is an audio piezo:

2017-07-12 10.32.11.jpg

. It's connected to the control panel at various points with some sort of interface module:

2017-07-12 10.33.02.jpg

.

Here's my problem...

When I switch on the new main, with the key in the "Off" position, both the Oil & Temp warning lights come on and the alarm sounds. If I then turn the key to the "On" position, the alarm stays on but the lights get brighter.

What I'm trying to achieve is to have the panel, warning lights and alarm to remain dark when I turn on the Main but come to life when I turn the Key to ON.

It's clearly being powered from the House side as I pulled the cable from the House battery and it goes dark.

So, how do I get the panel powered from the Starter side? Also, does anyone recognize the module, who makes it, and if there is a way to test it?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
rs

[RobS]

So if you leave it disconnected from the house does it only power up at "key ON" and function as it should.?

The temp warning light/buzzer should not be activated at key ON since it would be a "normally open" switch that only closes upon reaching its set point temp (190, 200, whatever....)

[WillieC]

Was that blue thang already installed on your boat? Have you traced exactly where the wires go? Seems to me the "hot" wire on that unit needs to be on the load side of the ignition switch, not directly from house battery. Audible should sound at every start up due to low oil pressure and/or alternator not charging. High temp alarms should not indicate, as Rob says, since they are not (or shouldn't be at start-up) in alarm state. Alarming, if so.

As to the lights getting brighter...hmm, sounds like the smoke is trying to get out.

Sorry, not helpful. Take the time to trace out the wires. I had to install separate sensors for my puny alarm panel as I wanted to keep the original idiot lights and gauges. You may find multiple sensors as well. Reminds me I should go back and mark all my wires to help the next poor guy. That, and I sometimes forget what I did.

[stxray]

So if you leave it disconnected from the house does it only power up at "key ON" and function as it should.?

The temp warning light/buzzer should not be activated at key ON since it would be a "normally open" switch that only closes upon reaching its set point temp (190, 200, whatever....)

Yep, if I disconnect the cable to the house battery, then switch on the main, the panel stays dark & quiet. I then turn the key and both lights and the alarm come on.

Somewhere the house battery must be bridging over to the starter side. I'm looking at the schematic from inside the boat (see attached) but, I don't see how. I think I'll reach out to Blue Sea tomorrow and see if they have any suggestion. If you see something, let me know.
Thanks,
rs

[catalina_mike]

The black box is essentially a resistor grid for the various inputs. When I redid my controls I used a matrix board from Seaward. The buzzer on mine I routed the positive through a silence switch so it I was testing things I don't hear the buzzer. Then it goes to the ignition of the engine switch. The various sensors that provide the signal are grounding devices with one wire. So when the temp, pressure etc are hit they ground providing the circuit to sound the buzzer. I am not sure of what manufacturer your picture is but hope the description on functionality will help troubleshoot.

Found this... https://www.sbmar.com/articles/basic-en ... g-example/

[stxray]

Panel Wiring Diagram.pdf

Was that blue thang already installed on your boat? Have you traced exactly where the wires go? Seems to me the "hot" wire on that unit needs to be on the load side of the ignition switch, not directly from house battery. Audible should sound at every start up due to low oil pressure and/or alternator not charging. High temp alarms should not indicate, as Rob says, since they are not (or shouldn't be at start-up) in alarm state. Alarming, if so.

As to the lights getting brighter...hmm, sounds like the smoke is trying to get out.

Sorry, not helpful. Take the time to trace out the wires. I had to install separate sensors for my puny alarm panel as I wanted to keep the original idiot lights and gauges. You may find multiple sensors as well. Reminds me I should go back and mark all my wires to help the next poor guy. That, and I sometimes forget what I did.

Yep, the blue "Thang" was already installed. I have traced each lead to where it connects to the panel wiring (see attached). Seems no matter where I probe, I'm finding it hot. I'm stumped

[WillieC]

It is so hard to switch between screens and not lose my reply. grrrr....
I know you have already done this, but check the wiring from the blue/magic box, again. It is not easy to verify that it is on the correct side of devices. Mike is correct that most of the sensors go to ground in alarm. True except for the alternator idiot light. It goes out when there is 12V+ on both sides of the lamp. Zero potential equals no light. That light in the circuit gets the alternator to start charging. Always make sure it is working. Not part of this discussion, sorry.
#22 in the Albin Wiring Diagram says main switch. Is that one switch with two sets of contacts or is it two switches or has it been replaced with something else? (Edit: you said you replaced this switch with the Blue Sea, doh!) The Note! (Obs!) says that both switches must be on or the electronic regulator may be damaged. Usually that means blown diodes in the alternator/regulator. That could be a source of backfeed, but there are a couple things to check before we panic about that.

I think I would, after meticulously checking the blue/black/magic box diagram, which is very good by the way, for proper installation. Then I would disconnect the power wire that comes from the key, which is the green wire. Make sure it comes from terminal 75 on the key as it is the switched side. Then, with the box essentially out of the circuit, check to see if both lights still come on. If yes, keep disconnecting wires from the box until the idiot lights start acting correctly, i.e. only the oil light comes on, and not the coolant temp light. (Edit: re-reading your posts makes this paragraph mostly worthless, still could be helpful once you get the bigger issue solved.)

There are a couple or three unrelated things going on that make these troubleshooting issues a bit of a nightmare. Was the blue box working before you installed the BlueSea switch and ACR?

"Yep, if I disconnect the cable to the house battery, then switch on the main, the panel stays dark & quiet. I then turn the key and both lights and the alarm come on."

Both lights coming on in this scenario indicate to me a bad diode inside the blue box.

As to why reconnecting the house sets the whole shebang off does indicate something in the ACR or switch or alternator/regulator. Not familiar with the ACR, I went with an echo charger. Sorry to add more confusion. You'll get it, in spite of us.