Advice on Re-Powering an A27

[Chaz]

Started this dialog as "New member with questions", and thought it appropriate to initiate a new string with a more specific subject line. Looking for any and all advice related to re-powering an A27, currently with a Lehman 4D61. Have looked at Volvo and Lehman and the salespeople recommend a 150hp. Would be nice to bump-up the cruising speed from 7kts to 12kts, but not at the expense of over-taxing the hull or throwing good money at a 24 year old boat.

[DSRedston]

I'm looking to repower from a 78hp nissan. faster cruise would be great but Ive found 80 hp range engines to be in the 25k range. I'm now looking for a used 80hp yanmar or beta.

[TorreyWP]

A thread with repower questions comes up fairly regularly. As another 27 owner with a repower looming inside of 5 years; I would love to suggest we start getting all the valuable information that others have posted about in one place. For now you need to do some scouring, but there are great pictures and stories of others success on this site. I would highly recommend finding member JT48348 and his engine room refit thread, great discussion there.

I also have the Nissan still chugging along, soft parts are becoming very hard to find (hoses, gaskets etc) with some totally gone or custom fits required. My engine still runs nice and the 3/4G per hour fuel burn is fabulous. Its becoming less and less practical to run such an old beast.

Anyway, if you are considering a repower, be sure to factor in things like new strainers, seacocks, battery cables, control panels, engine mounts and the possible customization/fabrication that might be required to align the new gear you select to drop in. Also, will you overhaul your transmission and bolt up to the new engine or will you buy a new or rebuilt transmission at the same time as the engine. There is a lot to consider that will directly affect the overall price tag and its important to remember, you are going to have the engine completely out of the way during this process! A chance to reach those places that were forever hidden by the heart of the beast.

As for engine size and horsepower, that I believe comes down to personal choice. There is some discussion out there of others going big and some going smaller. I think it all depends on what you want from the boat. More horsepower will not directly translate to more speed. The same way LESS horse power doesn't necessarily mean slower. Lots of factors to consider.

This Cummins package from trans atlantic diesel is the one I have my eye on but there are many ways to go about this.

http://www.tadiesels.com/eng-Cummins.html

Keep us all posted as you start to formulate your plan of attack and best of luck!

Torrey

[hetek]

I'm in the process of installing a new motor in my A25. To add to the list, I'm also looking at new prop shaft, coupler and possibly prop too. The good news is the motor came with the boat - just not installed.

I had "Bunkie", an A27FC a few years back with the Lehman 4D61. I began to price out a complete repower setup but stopped the hunt when it topped $15k.

I learned to like the Lehman and was fortunately still able to find parts due to the fact that it was basically a marinized Peugeot diesel sedan engine. Many parts were still available at my local auto parts or Rock Auto. No experience with the Nissan though.

[DCatSea]

TorreyWP states "As for engine size and horsepower, that I believe comes down to personal choice. There is some discussion out there of others going big and some going smaller. I think it all depends on what you want from the boat. More horsepower will not directly translate to more speed. The same way LESS horse power doesn't necessarily mean slower. Lots of factors to considerer" - Also - JTs repower thread is well worth scouring. I am also in "5 years to repower" mode, depending on who/what lasts longer - me or the Lehman.

Torrey is absolutely correct. A bigger engine might be just that, without doing much for performance. One of the great things about the Lehman-powered 27s is that they will cruise at 6.5 - 8 kts until the last cockroach is dead, while sipping diesel at 1-1.5 gph. I am sure other engine combinations will do the same, but Lehmaneers apparently like them a lot, despite the sound effects.

I have distinct memories of a formula from my youth - 1.5 x the square root of the LOW = best economic speed in knots for a displacement hull - (8.91 mph or 7.57kts for c. 26') Sounds awfully like an A27 to me. This despite engine size.

[WillieC]

"until the last cockroach is dead, "

That is beautiful! I can only hope for that kind of service from my 45 year old rebuild.
And thanks for the reminder of the formula. Will check that closer on my A25.

[DCatSea]

I'm almost a 70 year old rebuild, and still chugging along.

[Beta Don]

I have distinct memories of a formula from my youth - 1.5 x the square root of the LOW = best economic speed in knots for a displacement hull - (8.91 mph or 7.57kts for c. 26')

Your memory isn't too bad - The number is actually 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed

For an A27 with a LWL of 24' 4", that comes out to about 6.6 knots, or 7.6 MPH. It will go faster with more power, but you'll pay for it in fuel consumption. If you're lightly loaded and have 100 HP it will plane and do about 12 knots, but you'll REALLY pay for it. The later model 157 HP Isuzu powered A27's will go even faster than that

A well tuned diesel burns about a gallon an hour for every 20 HP produced, so if you can attain hull speed using 1 GPH, you really only 'need' around 20 or 25 HP for your repower, but having a little extra in reserve is probably a good idea.

Don

[Shogun]

I have a 1987 Albin 27 Sport model with the 157 Isuzu diesel. I just got back from my longest cruise - 5 days and about 20 hours of engine time. I've put about 150 hours on since purchase 18 months ago. The boat loves this engine and can do 13+ knots at 3000 rpm. I typically cruise at 2000-2600 and average 8-11 knots burning about 1 to 1.5 gallons per hour. I love this engine and it's nice to be able to "power up" when necessary. My 1987 only has 1290 hours.

[Bryan3536]

Hey guys, waking up an old thread here, my father is looking to pull the trigger on a 27' that likely needs a repower. What's the consensus for "best option" (and yes, I am laughing inside when I suggest there is a consensus).

[Beta Don]

I repowered mine with a 100 hp turbo Yanmar. Got a great deal on a newly rebuilt engine directly from the Yanmar dealer for $10K, which included a new $2K hydraulic transmission and a brand new Yanmar panel and wire harness which also sells for $2K. I installed everything myself and the 'incidentals were at least another $2500, so a DIY repower was in the $12.5K neighborhood . . . . plus a couple years and a couple hundred hours of my time. I had a friend with a forklift and many other necessary things most folks don't have access to. If you can't do it yourself, add at LEAST $5K to what you think it's going to cost . . . . and be ready for a 25% cost over run, just in case

If I had it to do over again . . . . I would not even LOOK at a used boat which needs a repower and instead, buy one which has already been repowered. You'll save time, money, frustration and be out cruising years before you otherwise would

Don

[WillieC]

There's your consensus. End of discussion.


Then again...my folks bought a place on the water, brother bought a ski boat, mom puttered in her flower beds and finally dad decided he wanted to get in on the shrimping so he bought a near derelict SeaRay runabout (with a Volvo Penta I/O, no less).

He spent YEARS working on that thing, a machinist by trade, so he knew how to make things work. I don't think he ever got that thing running good enough for anything other than an extended test drive. I could never understand it until after his dementia set in. He just liked to fart around with things mechanical. Once it actually was usable and dependable, it completely lost his interest. One of his last test runs he put the boat in the Canal, tied it to the bulkhead at high tide when ma called us in for dinner and as we sat down to eat, gazing out at the water, the old SeaRay didn't look right. The tide was rising and the SeaRay was not. He'd forgotten to put the plug in. I couldn't believe it, but I think Dad was secretly pleased. His work was not finished.

It all depends on how you like to spend your time and money.

[DesertAlbin736]

It all depends on how you like to spend your time and money.

Better to find a boat where all the work's been done already if possible even if you have to pay a little more for it. But a number of other factors go into a decision like that.

• a) Is the boat otherwise sound & not a junker & fugitive from the landfill?

• b) Does you or your dad have the time, skills, tools, & facilities to DIY? Yard labor can be north of $100 an hour.

• c)What else does the boat need besides a new engine? Shaft, prop, cutlass bearings, engine mounts, electronics? Don't underestimate the cost of simple things like canvas work, re-covering or replacing cushions, buying anchors, dock lines, fenders.

• d) Can you find a deal on a good engine, new or rebuilt?

• e) What's a realistic time frame to complete the job?

I'm a true believer in spreadsheets. Cost it out & see how much your dad will end up investing vs picking up a turn key boat that someone else did all that work & now has to sell due to health or other reasons.

This is for your father, not you? Maybe it's something like WillieC's father, a retiree looking for something constructive to do. In the end, assuming he's not suffering from dimentia, it's his money & his decision.

Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing — absolutely nothing — half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing... about in boats — or with boats. In or out of ’em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not.
Wind In The Willows, by Kenneth Grahame

[Beta Don]

I agree - For some of us, there's nothing like messing with boats!

I installed a brand new Yanmar diesel in an O'Day 25 I used to own - Went from a 10 Hp kicker hanging on the stern to an inboard diesel over a period of about 18 months. Had to fab and install engine beds, shaft log, motor mounts and all the associated hardware. Cost was right at $10K and it raised the resale value of the boat by about half of that

Then I bought a 'basket case' Endeavour 33 for $7K, added a sugar scoop transom to it (making it an Endeavour 34 and redocumented it as such) and after a total refit inside and out (took 2 years) I sailed her all along the Gulf Coast from New Orleans to Key West for 5 or 6 years and sold her for $40K

The A27 was my last 'adventure' which took about 10 years (Hurricane Katrina got in the way) and I don't know how many hundreds of hours I had in that one. I fabricated many things for the repower (all new stainless motor mounts, etc) which kept the price as low as possible. I really hate to think what a boat yard would have charged to do that repower - Of course it would have been done a LOT quicker

If you AND your Dad just love working on boats and you've done it for very long, you already know these things usually end up costing 2X what you think going in, and if such a project doesn't scare you, then buy an old boat cheap and toss money and time at it until you either finish, or give up on it. Lots of these projects never get finished. Nothing beats an extended father/son project though and all the more so if it includes a boat! . . . . or an old car

I met a couple in their middle 70's in Panama City Florida on a trip south one time. The man had decided to build his own sailboat . . . . from scratch! They lived in Minnesota so he first had to build a building to build the boat in and then he went to work. He estimated it would take 2 to 3 years. Built the hull upside down and then flipped it and built the deck and cabin. Full teak interior. Beautiful 36 footer, epoxy over wood hull, even a hollow wooden mast that he made himself - He was obviously a master craftsman. Looked like something Clark Gable might have owned in the 1950's. Absolutely gorgeous boat! He documented everything with hundreds of pictures and the local newspaper sent a reporter out every couple years and they had all the news articles in the scrapbook too. Took him 11 years in all and then they brought it down the rivers to Panama City where they stepped the mast to head for the Keys

They left Apalachicola with a group of us headed for St Pete and we had a pretty rough crossing. He and his wife weren't having any fun for sure and I think they sold the boat a few months later. He had planned that they would be a good bit younger for their maiden voyage, but building the boat turned out to be much more fun that sailing it

Don't let any of my comments keep you from the entirely worthwhile endeavor of saving a deserving A27 from the scrap heap!

Don

[DesertAlbin736]

...installed a brand new Yanmar diesel in an O'Day 25 I used to own -

That's what our cruising friends have, a '78 O'Day 25 with an aftermarket Yanmar 2GM20 with Saildrive installed by previous owners, seen here motoring in front of Chattebox Falls in BC.

20160716_090531.jpg

I met a couple in their middle 70's in Panama City Florida on a trip south one time. The man had decided to build his own sailboat . . . . from scratch!....He had planned that they would be a good bit younger for their maiden voyage, but building the boat turned out to be much more fun that sailing it.

Therein lies the rub, will there be time to use it or will it take so long to complete that old age gets in the way? Of course if the project itself becomes becomes a father-son bonding experience, those could turn into priceless memories that will last a lifetime.