To Sail or Not to Sail???

[stxray]

The A25 I'm restoring came with a mast & sails and a support pole right in the middle of the main cabin. Since my plans are to do the ICW, hopefully later this year, I'm wondering if setting it up for sailing is worth the time, effort and expense. Here's my logic...

One of my main reasons I chose A25 was for her shallow draft and low vertical requirements which means I should be able to minimize running aground and requiring bridge openings. Plus, without the sailing rig, I'm thinking I could remove that support post. Additionally, from what I've read, sailing opportunities on the ICW are somewhat limited mainly to the Chesapeake Bay and the Albemarle Sound and given her modest keel, it's not like she can point very close to the wind especially with 40 year old sails. So, these are all reasons NOT to set her up for sailing.

On the other hand...

Even if all goes well, I will be making the trip in a 40 year old boat with a single 40 year old engine. Yes, I'm doing all I can to confirm/assure she is up to the task: Engine flush, Rebuilt Injectors, New alternator drive belt, New impeller, Cleaned fuel tank, & Replaced fuel lines with plans to do an Oil analysis and Compression test ( Thanks to WillieC for that suggestion) once she's in the water. And I will have a dinghy, an outboard and towing insurance. Keep in mind, I am a former sailor so, I do know how to sail not to mention the possibility to travel without burning fuel while listening to the waves rather than to a diesel engine.

So, my single biggest reason to set her up for sailing would be to have a backup for my engine but is it necessary/worthwhile/prudent to do so?

Your thoughts, suggestions & opinions would be appreciated.

[Beta Don]

You've thought it out pretty well and all your points are valid

As a former sailor, I too like the ability to keep moving in the event of a propulsion failure - That was an important point to consider for me on our Florida trip. I had a dink with a 5 hp outboard, so I fabricated a bracket that bolted to my swim platform so that I could mount the outboard there and get to the nearest port in an emergency

I doubt you'll be doing much actual 'sailing' with the A25 rig installed - I think it would be more 'motorsailing' and using the sails to stabilize the boat in bumpy conditions. If you could magically have that ability without having to deal with the stored mast, boom and sails when you're not using them, I think I'd go for that, but realistically I suspect you might end up ditching them at some point on your trip - The minuses far outweigh the plusses. You're correct that you won't use it much doing the ICW and you're right about bridge clearances, especially if your trip takes you to South Florida where there can be 2 or 3 bridges every mile, or so it seemed to us - It's really nice to fit under them and not have to wait for scheduled openings

Your Volvo will use very little fuel. It's much more maneuverable in tight spaces under power. You'll need all the electricity you van generate, so running the engine isn't a bad thing. There were many A25's that came equipped with sail rigs, but you almost never see one sailing . . . . and you have 40 year old sails - Usually, the rig is stored in the garage at home

Don

[stxray]

Thanks for your thoughts. At least I'm not crazy. Oh wait, maybe we both are, lol.

A bracket on the swim platform could work. I like that idea.

Do you see any issue if I remove the support pole in the main cabin?

[DesertAlbin736]

I'm kind of on the same page as Beta Don. My wife and I are also former sailors, of the "trailer sailing" variety. Our A25 is the 6th boat I've owned since first getting into sailing in 1998, having previously owned, in chronological order, a Windrose 25, Vagabond 14, Montgomery 15 (which I once sailed offshore from Marina Del Rey in Los Angeles to Catalina Island and also ran Barnegat inlet in NJ from the bay past "Old Barney" out into the Atlantic, so who's the crazy one here? ), a Catalina 22, and finally a Catalina 25. One reason sailors who contemplate "going over to the dark side" like the Albin 25 is the similarity to sailboats in terms of relaxed pace and unmatched fuel economy. Our motivation was to get away from the mast raising effort required when transporting a sailboat over the road, since we are 360 miles from the nearest ocean, and there are so many places to cruise if one is willing and able, time and effort wise, to hit the road.

In fact our Albin 25 did come equipped with the sail rig option, which even now, 3+ years after purchase we've never attempted to step the mast. Ours is the early model version with the mast step right up against the windshield, not in the middle of the cabin top like yours, and does not have a compression post.

This is how our rig is designed

A25 mast install from manual.jpg

Anyway, I doubt it would be much worth it have the sail rig installed, since with such a shallow un-ballasted keel it would barely point high enough to sail upwind, not to mention the drag from the prop, and at best might do OK on a beam reach or downwind. I've read some comments elsewhere that in a 10 to 12 knot wind on a beam reach one would be lucky to make 4 knots. On the other hand, having the mast, even without sails set, might help dampen the roll rate in a beam sea.

As far as main engine reliability, besides keeping up with preventive maintenance, signing up for BoatUS gold level towing coverage would help. Plus with outboard powered dinghy, even if you didn't have a bracket installed like Don's, you could tow your boat with the dinghy, assuming you have a crew member at the helm. What I would do (and it works) in that case would be to tie off the dinghy alongside the stern quarter (cushioned with fenders), preferably on starboard side so you could talk to the helmsperson, and push the boat along that way rather than towing with a line off the bow in front. We've helped disabled boats like that and it works quite well, even with a 2 or 3 HP outboard. With 5 HP you could nearly reach hull speed, since 25 foot sailboats with outboards don't need more than 8 or 9 HP.

[hetek]

I second all of the above...

MacGregor boats touts having a sail and a motor gives you two sources of power, but as they always say: A motor sailer does neither very well.

I worked at a marina in my youth and the owner of the place had a 9.9 hp Johnson outboard stored in a locker on his 26' Penn Yan - just in case. He had a very small outboard bracket mounted on his swim platform, almost the size of a shoebox. You can take your 5 hp and mount it to the platform in an emergency and you can get into a safe harbor, drop the hook and find a mechanic to fix what broke.

Me? I would try sailing as a novelty if I had a rig. My dad is a sailor from way back and I'm sure we'd both get a kick out of it, but to use the sail rig as a means to get out of trouble? I think I'd go with the outboard on the swim platform anyday.

Sea Tow or similar is also a smart move. Might even be my "plan A'. Just drop the hook, call them and wait for the Calvary.

[stxray]

So it looks unanimous, setting up the sailing rig would not not be worth the investment in time, money & effort. So, the sailing rig stays home and I'll fashion a bracket to place the outboard on the swim platform in the event I lose power.

What I'm still pondering is, can I remove the support pole in the main cabin. It's designed to transfer the compression load from the mast down to the keel. No mast - no need for the pole?

I guess I could remove it and see what effect it has. I can always put it back.

Any thoughts??

[Beta Don]

I'm not specifically familiar with the structure of your cabin top, but assuming the post was added only to support the compression loads of the mast (which is likely) I don't see where it would hurt anything to remove it

Was that post present on all boats of that vintage, even those sold without the sailing rig? If not, I think you have a positive answer to your question

If it was my boat, I would remove it, store it in the garage and only put it back if and when the deck begins to sink!

Don

[WillieC]

I am sure the post was made to be removable. Our A25 was allegedly set up for sails, but I can find scant evidence of it, and no post hanging around in the galley. The galley roof is a favorite place for people to sit, even lean against the windshield. It is plenty strong without a post under it, which is only designed for a point load anyway.
I vote for removal.

[Jay Knoll]

Even tho there are fewer and fewer "low bridges" on the ICW it is certainly a treat to just be able to motor under a closed span while the sailboats and larger boats are circling around waiting for an opening.

[markdbecker]

DSC_4535.JPG

Love my sail rig. But only step it for long trip's. Take's two to step the mast.............

[stxray]

Thanks Ticaboo. I'll hold on to it for future use but not for the ICW.

Love that pic.

[WillieC]

Yes, that pic is amazing. Makes me want a split rail and a ladder, steep shores and sandy beaches, heck throw in no wind and tide while we are dreaming. Still a lovely picture, nicely done.

[DesertAlbin736]

Ticaboo,

That pic was taken on Lake Powell, was it not? Interesting, your mast step is set partway toward the middle the cabin top, even though your boat is older model than ours, which has the same setup as in the drawing in my earlier post above and no compression post. Do you use any sort of gin pole & tackle to raise yours, or use the boom & mainsheet tackle, or just muscle it up? Do you use any sort of mast crutch to rest the mast on while you step the mast? My biggest fear doing ours is that the mast steps right up against the windshield, and I'd be afraid that one slip & I could damage the irreplaceable windshield glass. I wonder too, was your boat ever stored at an RV storage lot in Surprise, AZ, as we saw one there when first looking at another A25 in 2012?

[markdbecker]

I picked up Ticaboo in Page AZ. last year and pulled her back to Michigan. Don't use any gear to step the mast. It go's up easy with two people would not try it with one. Like having the sail rig but only use it on the big lakes and would not use it on the ICW.....

[DesertAlbin736]

Ticaboo,

Yeah, it's not a particularly heavy rig, roughly comparable to a Catalina 22 mast. Maybe we'll try it someday if we ever do Lake Powell. I'm still skittish about damaging our windshield since the mast step is right there up against the glass (which you can see if you look closely at this picture). But that's a ways off into the future, since we plan to go back up to the Pacific NW next year. In fact we're leaving tomorrow to head over to Huntington Beach to launch there & spend next week on Catalina Island, which is about all we're doing this year as a summer cruise. I guess it'll remain a mystery what that other boat was that we saw in the yard in El Mirage. Maybe it was your boat, maybe not. It was during the spring of 2012 that we saw the boat there, but did not take a closer look at the time since we were focused on the other one we almost bought.

Interesting that you also have a Yanmar 3GM30F in your boat. Great little engines, aren't they?

La Dolce Vita (ex-"Nowell's Ark") in Wahweap marina, Page AZ

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