A27 General Electric / Re-wiring Thread

[JT48348]

This is the Albin 27 General Electrical / Re-wiring Thread where we can ask general Electrical and re-wiring questions. Not to be confused with the A27 Radar Threador the Duplex Wire Thread.

Such as:

Someone who's done a partial or full re-wiring of the A27, how much and what size wiring did you generally use? I want to consolidate my wiring costs and buy 1-2 types of wire on a roll and use for as much of the boat as possible. I'm trying to determine what size and length will work best/cheapest.


Instead of taking everything to the 12v panel, I'm thinking of running to bus-bars fore and aft? Has anyone done this? I'm thinking this will keep everything organized and facilitate adding items or building the system over time.

Has anyone had any experience with adjustable adhesive wire clips vs. screwed in permanent cable clips/ties. On my A27 I had both from previous owners/factory. Again I'm looking for something easy to install that allows the over all system to be added to at a later date.

Has anyone actually used a good crimping terminal tool, and if so is ratcheting, and if so which one?

[Sprig1]

JT I would check out Pkys in Annapolis MD great prices free shipping over $45.00. He really helped me out a good person. On most items he beat everything on the web. Great price on wire. I have the Anchor chrimpors and really like them.

[JT48348]

Gotcha. But how much wiring do you think I need? 100ft?

[Sprig1]

That's a good question. Where are you going to put your electrical panels. I put mine as you go down the companway on the right. Worked out well I can access them from closet. Took a lot of space in closet. How much AC amperage are you running? I got 54 feet of 12-3 for AC. I'm doing nothing fancy will let you know how that works out. 10 feet of 10-3 for AC supply nothing more then you need another switch or fuse. I got 200 feet of 16-2 probably to much running that for lights, electronics. I have a sub panel on helm ran 10/3 to that bought to much for AC. Get some bilge pump wire to. PKYS has free shipping over $45.00 so just buy the minimum you can get more. It's easy to spend $45.00. I'm sure this not much help sorry about that.

[JT48348]

My plan is to put my AC and 12v electrical panels inside the the port side bulkhead storage compartment in the pilothouse. I'm going to make a removable facing panel that fits inside the compartment. It will sit just inside compartment and the compartment will have smoked plexiglass doors.

Battery cables can be run from the engine room below.

I will have one 12v sub panel at the helm.

[RobS]

Has anyone actually used a good crimping terminal tool, and if so is ratcheting, and if so which one?

A couple years back I photo-documented all of the tools I keep aboard so I have a few pics and info to share. Tools, especially hand tools, are somewhat personal preference items and everyone will have their favorites but here's my $0.02.

I've toyed with different crimpers over the years but I find these basic ones to be the best. When selecting crimping pliers it is important that they crimp on the opening side of the pivot, not behind the pivot back by the handles or they become nearly impossible to get into the tight workspaces we boaters have to deal with. These have nice long handles for leverage and a positive feedback feel which is important when making the crimp. I use them for nothing but crimping (no stripping or cutting) and only use them in that one spot where I have the arrow. Look at the crimp connector before making the crimp - if it has a seam, put the seam in the valley of the crimp tool, not under the dimple maker.

DSCN3139.JPG

This is my stripper of choice.

DSCN3142.JPG

This is my electrical "day-bag" that is always on the boat. I have bins of more supplies for projects but this is the "at-the-ready" bag...

DSCN3137.JPG

On another note, I recently installed 12V digital voltmeters for each battery bank. We made up the 4-position faceplate at my friend's engraving shop. They are homerun direct wired to each bank (+) and (-). A very simple and VERY valuable tool. I highly recommend you implement these into your DC plan. I have recently put together a full article about them for the Seaboard Marine website. Once the article goes live on the website I will post a link.

installed (02).jpg

installed (01).jpg

backside and wiring.jpg

[RobS]

Further to my post above regarding my favorite crimper:

When I completed my engine alarm project a couple seasons back I was using 22ga conductor. I was finding that the crimping tool "bottomed out" just as I was feeling good about the crimp pressure. So I wanted a tad more bite. Increased the crimp range by grinding down the inside of the handles allowing the jaws to close a tad tighter. As I mentioned above, I only use these to make the crimp so that stripping feature and such that was ground away was of no use anyway. Like I said, hand tools become very "personalized"...

[Beta Don]

Gotcha. But how much wiring do you think I need? 100ft?

That would be a good amount to start with. I used about that much 12/2 when I rewired mine, but then I didn't use 12 gauge wire for very many things - Only the higher current devices. You can take rough measurements for what you think you'll need and add 25% more and you'll probably be pretty close

I used 10 gauge wire from my solar panels to the regulator and from the regulator to the batteries. Also 10 gauge from the main panel to the sub panel under the helm. I used 8 gauge from the 40 amp smart charger to the batteries. 12/3 tinned marine wire for all the AC wiring, except for one length of 10/3 from the power outlet to the main breaker panel

I used LED lights for everything, including all new running and anchor lights - Don't think I had a single filament light aboard. I had PWD dimmers on several of the lights - They reduce the current draw even more and you get the exact amount of light you desire. Since the LED's use so much less power, I used double insulated 18 gauge speaker wire (a red and black conductor inside a common gray sheath) for all my lighting and also for the battery monitoring system and the wiring for the tank gauges for the freshwater and holding tanks. All together I used about 250 feet of the 18/2

I soldered every single connection I made - Didn't crimp anything. I've rewired half a dozen boats over the years (for pay) and always solder every connection. If you're using 100% tinned wire, crimping is perfectly fine, but in a marine environment if you're not always dealing with tinned wire, soldering makes a much more reliable connection. I have worked on several very high end boats over the years and you would be surprised how few of them came from the factory with tinned marine wire

Don

[sail149]

Don
As you are a 'pro soldered connector guy' I'm sure you are 100% correct. My issue with soldering is its such a Pita. I have never figured out how to do it the quick and easy way ( if there is one) even doing it on the bench I always need 3 hands , 4 would be better espically with older stiff springy wire. Keeping the wire, hot soldering tip, fitting or connector and fresh solder wire for fitting when hot all in the same place is impossible for my fat fingers , it's crazy hard......what am I doing wrong? As for doing the same inside an access locker in the dark ... AAAGH!

It make me appreciate why it took my old Dad 3 months to rewrite a Lancaster bomber during the Berlin air lift!
Cheers

[Beta Don]

I probably shouldn't admit this, but . . . . I find holding a length of solder in my teeth frees up both hands and makes it a much simpler job

If I'm not here next week and you hear I died of lead poisoning . . . . well, that wasn't the brightest idea, now was it?

I have a few different lights I use in confined spaces - I can't see a darned thing in the dark . . . . I've got a pretty bad case of glaucoma

Don

[J0k3r]

Warren,
I use this little item when soldering connectors. It provides the extra set of hands, but yes soldering is still a pain either way.
I think I bought it at Harbor Freight.

20170403_091819.jpg

[sail149]

Hi I have the same tool ...... But it only really works on the bench and again takes a while to get set up just right.....
I though Don was going to have a magic trick but it's not just me , soldering is a PITA.
Also recently my fingers lock up and loose feeling if I hold tools for too long that really mess thinks up.
I think ill try the mouth hand trick...... I have used this solder holder that stand up so I can touch the fitting to the solder when practical.
Cheers
Prehaps I need to google it!

So I looked at a few YouTube video
This was not bad if a bit long
https://youtu.be/Zu3TYBs65FM