Frozen Seacock

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:59 pm

It seems like the issues keep piling up and time keeps running out!

I have a frozen seacock (waste discharge) in the hull and it's stuck in the "almost all the way open" position. If it were closed, I would not be worrying but I really want all of them to work for obvious reasons. When I received the boat, the handle was missing. I found a replacement and realized that the ball valve is completely frozen, the only one on the boat. I've removed the hose and hit it with some PB blaster, no luck. I'm not applying crazy pressure or anything on it but it's definitely locked up pretty good. The seacock/valve are one piece so there is no trying to remove the valve from the mounting plate/thru hull. The only chance I'd have at removing it is probably grinding the mushroom part of the thru hull off from the outside (which I don't even have access to because the boat is sitting on a trailer and the location is basically right beside the starboard bunk and over the axles) and pounding the whole thing up through into the bilge on the inside.

Any awesome old school tricks or should I just cross my fingers and hope for the best?

Thanks!

Post by **catalina_mike** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:01 am

Well you should get it fixed IMO. Are you sure you are trying to close it the correct way? Some valves (groco) have a universal setup by moving a threaded stop from one side to the other. The factory handle of some allow a ratchet to be used for additional leverage.

501839_l.jpg

I use a flat wrench inserted into the thru hull to hold it in place with a adjustable holding the wrench. Hard to describe but basicaly stick something into the thru hull that will grab the tabs inside and hold it. Two man job for sure.

You can on some remove the keeper that holds the ball in place. Then you can lubricate the hello out of it.

021232038-ball-valves_med.jpg

But if you are that stuck that bad it is best and faster to replace assuming you can get acess while on the trailer.

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:49 pm

Thanks, Mike!

This is interesting... My valve looks like the Graco but the valve itself is fixed to the mounting plate (bolted to the hull). It has a drain and what appears to be some sort of smaller set screw near the handle. If I remove the handle and nut that holds it on there is some kind of packing nut that I can also unscrew with a socket, the nut that goes around the valve "stem" that the handle turns. It looks like some sort of packing nut.

Mine looks like this:

I'm wondering if I should plug the bottom and just fill it with PB blaster as well as add some to the drain plug area.

If all else fails I can always fill the seacock with 5200, cap it off and hook a garden hose up directly to my macerator

Post by **RobS** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:05 pm

Stuck open ? guess the prior owner was not an advocate for clean waterways..., and I guess he wasn't boarded by the coasties much either. Yes plug the bottom with a rubber stopper and fill the valve with a good penetrant and let it soak and you might be able to work it free. Wasn't she just surveyed??

Post by **catalina_mike** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:16 pm

The end opposite the flange can be loosened and that might break it free. The packing can also be loosened but it normally does not have sufficient force to stop rotation with a wrench. If the valve looks in good condition in should break free with sufficient loosening, lube, and wrench!

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:12 pm

RobS wrote:Stuck open ? guess the prior owner was not an advocate for clean waterways..., and I guess he wasn't boarded by the coasties much either. Yes plug the bottom with a rubber stopper and fill the valve with a good penetrant and let it soak and you might be able to work it free. Wasn't she just surveyed??

He was an interesting fellow from AL..... Literally spent 5 minutes on the phone with me explaining how he's never "taken a Sh*t in the boat". I thought it was funny at first but now I wish he had....

The Y valve is there and working and was in the "pump out" position.

Yes - this came up in the survey as "handle removed from seacock, not able to test if operable"

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:15 pm

catalina_mike wrote:The end opposite the flange can be loosened and that might break it free. The packing can also be loosened but it normally does not have sufficient force to stop rotation with a wrench. If the valve looks in good condition in should break free with sufficient loosening, lube, and wrench!

I tried to get on that with a large adjustable wrench but it was a joke... It's in a difficult location (starboard between the stringer and a bunch of other plumbing/downslope of the hull).

Post by **RobS** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:06 pm

gfuller wrote: Yes - this came up in the survey as "handle removed from seacock, not able to test if operable"

CLASSIC surveyor!

Most sellers and brokers are full of sh*t anyway so maybe he did defecate on your boat if it makes you feel any better

If you end up pulling the seacock I highly recommend the stepped wrench from Buck...I've done many seacocks of all different sizes including all of them on the Albin and now on the Chris Craft and the tool is invaluable..

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:56 pm

Well Rob, The handle just snapped off along with the mounting nut etc.... so I've ordered that nifty tool and I'm going to have to find a way to get under there and replace the whole thing. I really want the peace of mind when I'm spending nights on it 60 miles offshore.

Great tip with the tool. Hopefully it budges without cracking fiberglass and all of that fun stuff. There's enough PB blaster in it to be somewhat effective at this point I'm sure!

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:00 pm

RobS wrote:
Most sellers and brokers are full of sh*t anyway so maybe he did defecate on your boat if it makes you feel any better

LOL

Post by **Nancy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:09 pm

GF - does your seacock look like this?

macerator seacock-old1-050813-1600.JPG

This was our macerator seacock with the exact same problems as yours - stuck partially open, terrible access above that starboard stringer. We tried and tried to break it free, and ended up replacing it. It's a Buck Algonquin, and I'm sure I can dig out the replacement part number if you need it. Ours was corroded.

Oh, and now I see that you've posted again while I was typing this, and your handle broke off - exactly like ours did. Well, you're not alone if it makes you feel any better.

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:55 pm

Hi Nancy,

So I was compelled to run out and take a pic of this thing

It doesn't look exactly the same but it's similar. I'd love for the new one to match up to the existing holes - speaking of those, are they just lag screwed into the hull? Fortunately, we have a great independent marine supply store that has hundreds of these things (probably EXCEPT the one I need).

Let me know what you think... All of the other handles are blue and say "Buck" on them. I took them off and they did not fit this particular seacock. Oh, and all that dirt/dust was from critters in the air vent duct I shook out.

I have two thru hulls in the same location as I see in your pic but mine is on the right side for the waste, the left is the toilet "fill" if I remember correctly, then I have another one between the stringers for the AC/Heat.

Let me know if for some reason you can't see the pic, I've had issues with google photos before.

Lake Champlain, Huh? I grew up there, went to HS in St.Johnsbury and my parents just recently moved from Essex to Maine.

Post by **WillieC** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:35 pm

Your pic came through just fine, even with correct orientation. You are good!
MarineHowTo.com has a great section on replacing thru hulls. Yours and Nancy's situation are exactly why he recommends installing a separate flanged thru hull with a threaded, easily replaced valve on top of it. Takes up a little more height, but now I see the value. Good luck!

(Dat dere's an ArrVee, Clark! Nice.)

gfuller · Post by **gfuller** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:50 pm

You nailed it, Willie. I was praying I had that Groco(?) setup but it wasn't the case. I even thought of threading another ball valve where the 90 degree barbed fitting comes out the top but there is just no access for leverage there to get it off.

I feel like I'm a bit OCD about these things until I read that Rob has replaced every seacock on the last two boats he's owned

I guess that's the bar here.

you guys are awesome, thank you!

Post by **Nancy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:52 pm

Ha ha, GF - the photo compulsion hits hard and fast . . . I blame it all on RobS, who has thousands of photos (really) with every detail imaginable. That said, the only photo I have of the new seacock doesn't show enough detail to be sure if it's like yours, but I think there's a really good chance that you'll have a match. Yes on the lag screws.

>>I have two thru hulls in the same location as I see in your pic but mine is on the right side for the waste, the left is the toilet "fill" if I remember correctly, then I have another one between the stringers for the AC/Heat.<<

Yes, our toilet intake fitting is forward of this one. The one for the AC/Heat is on the port side of the bilge.

Ha - small world on the VT connection. We live in Milton; boat is in Malletts Bay. Sorry to have missed you! St. Johnsbury Academy? Lucky you!

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