Refrigeration A25

[Sunsetrider]

Following up on the above comments, I "currently" have a 115 AH house battery which actually gets very little use, and less when I exchange for LED lights. That will change with the fridge/freezer of course. So I was thinking about the possibility of adding a single pair of GC batteries, to be located maybe under the fridge (if it goes into the spot now occupied by the ice box), - and still have it hooked into the boat's existing charging system. I just don't quite understand how that would be wired up, to ensure the GCs are being charged by the battery charger at the dock. I guess I could figure it out. If I locate the fridge in the aft cabin, the extra battery bank could easily fit under the stbd aft bunk. That actually might work better, and more direct wiring would be possible since the batteries are located under the helm seat. Also, the aft cabin will accommodate the 80 l. unit more comfortably, and will always be out of direct sunlight. Exchange grandsons for cold beer? <g>

As an aside, these Unique units are designed to tolerate a 35 degree angle max 4 hours per day. That works fine for me.

[Beta Don]

The simplest, most fool proof way to manage a two battery system is to use an ACR - Automatic Charging Relay

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Systems-Aut ... B01LEHLINK

When a charging voltage is present (battery charger, solar panels or engine alternator) the ACR combines the battery banks in parallel so they both charge at the same time and when the charging voltage isn't there, the relay opens and you have two independent battery systems

Don

[Sunsetrider]

Don, I have an ACR managing my existing house and starting batteries. I need to figure out how a second house bank fits into the picture. I have no doubt there is a simple answer (somewhere) but it disturbs me to imagine it will mean another ACR and a whole new mess of complicated wiring. I don't want to go back into that world, now I've done it once!

[Beta Don]

My solution to that was . . . . two sets of GC batteries and no 'starting' battery

The plan with flooded batteries is to try to keep them at 50% SOC or higher for longest lifespan - I monitor that pretty carefully, but even a pair of GC's drained to only a 25% charge (and I never let them get THAT low) will still start my diesel engine, so there's almost no chance of not being able to start. If you have a conventional battery switch, you can start using either pair. I had one pair of flooded GC's wired directly to the engine and I used that pair for lights and other small loads and then the second pair for the 'house' bank which ran the fridge, my wife's CPAP, fans and any other 'heavy' loads

I used this same layout on my cruising sailboat for many years without any issues - Just didn't make sense to me to carry around a third 'starting' battery when I already have 400 AH of batteries aboard

Maybe not the 'best' solution for everyone, but it worked well for me

Don

[DesertAlbin736]

Sunset, I'm with you on that. The A25 doesn't afford much in the way of good options for refrigeration. Front opening units in that recess opposite the helm seat & just aft of the main cabin door seem to be the norm. Finding room for adding extra batteries is also a conundrum. Options are limited mostly to the lazarette compartments under the cockpit bench seats. Any way you look at it, installing refrigeration of any kind displaces scarce storage space and involves big $$$$$. Ideally one would find a way to have a top loader with a holding plate similar to those found in cruising sailboats, but where to put something like that? We're in the same boat metaphorically speaking. We don't even have an icebox in that side opening, but I'd hate to lose that storage space which we utilize for spare parts, our shore power cord and water tank filling hose, extra anchor rode and various and sundry other items. Not only that, the plywood cover for that opening doubles as our cockpit dining table. In our case we've already moved our batteries to the lazarette under the starboard seat to make room for a larger 20 gallon holding tank, so we've lost that space for storage. For long cruises we try to minimize chilled provisions (canned goods, etc) a la Lin & Larry Pardey, and whenever we can get it we use block ice in a 48 qt so-called "5 day" cooler , and have a 12V plug in Coleman cooler.

Note to Dkirsop, your boat looks great! Love the look of that teak & holly flooring. Head over to the "Cruising" board page & check out some of the photos I posted of Pender Harbour, specifically Garden Bay and Welbourn Cove. Too bad we didn't get to meet up when we were there. If only we'd known. It'll be at least another year before make it up that way again, and even then don't know if we'll make it back to Pender Harbour. If money were no object I'd have a summer home up there.

[Beta Don]

For certain, the refrigeration/no refrigeration decision is a complicated one on any small boat and the smaller the boat the harder it is to manage. Yes, it takes up valuable space and it will be the single largest energy user by far and that usually entails other decisions - How much battery power do I need, what charging sources can I use and so on

For sure, it gets expensive too - More money than buying a new refrigerator freezer for your house. All in all, I would guess off the top of my head that our system in total (the icebox I mounted the freezer unit in, the Isotherm system, the pair of AGM golf cart batteries for power - Mine needed to be mounted within the living space, so they needed to be AGM's - The solar panels, the regulator, lots of wiring, switches, relays, fuses, battery monitors) ran me north of $2K

You can buy bags of ice for many, many years for half that amount!!

Unless you're going to use it for several months each year and for many years, bags of ice probably make lots more sense on any small boat

Don

[Sunsetrider]

Ice has worked for me so far just fine, but my plan is to prepare for an extended journey. I will need refrigeration for that.

[Northern Spy]

I have done most of the research and come to the same conclusions as the rest of you. My solution was to mount two group 27 batteries inside the gunnel on the starboard side. I mounted 1 starting battery in the space next to the engine under the helm seat. I charge from the alternator through the starting battery to a Yandina combiner (ACR) which tops off the start battery then "spills over" into the house bank. When on shore power it charges through the house bank then the start battery. For refrigeration we have a Grape Solar 1.1 cuft mini fridge sitting on the port side V-berth by the galley.

The setup worked well last summer, particularly the Yandina. We have to move the fridge to the floor in big weather or at night which sucks though. I would love to install an ice box like on sail boats, but where to put it! I think the best would be to rebuild it into the galley but we filled that space with an AC unit...

[DesertAlbin736]

Ice has worked for me so far just fine, but my plan is to prepare for an extended journey. I will need refrigeration for that.

How much of an extended journey? So far our record for number of consecutive cruising days afloat is 46, and we did quite well without mechanical refrigeration. However, that said we were never more than a day or two away from a source of provisions and supplies including ice, & used block ice whenever possible and an ice pick to chop of chunks for drinks. We tried to minimize things needing ice, stocking things like egg noodles, canned soups, canned beans, chicken, salmon & tuna, etc. We'd get quart cartons of soy milk that didn't need refrigeration until opened, have dry cereal for b'fast, buy pre-cooked bacon that can be stored at room temp, etc. Although we didn't use dry ice, that's an option. If you do just educate yourself on the precautions. Also good extra insulated "5 day" coolers help, maybe use too smaller ones instead of one large one, one for food & things that don't need to be accessed often & the other for beverages. And of course if you're cruising where the water is cold you can store things in the bilge. For A25's, a good location would be under the removable floor panel of the port side bench seat locker. But you do need some ice for rum & cokes.

You can get away with storing lots of things without refrigeration including fresh eggs, especially if temperatures are less than say 80*. Here's some tips from Cruising World:

http://www.cruisingworld.com/gear/cruis ... out-fridge

DSCN1557 (1280x960).jpg

The cockpit table you see here doubles as the plywood cover panel that goes over the opening where many A25's have an icebox or fridge installed next to the cabin door.

[Beta Don]

I think the most economical and practical solution for a small boat is something like an Engle fridge coupled to a pair of golf cart batteries

https://www.amazon.com/Engel-MT45F-U1-V ... frigerator

That model is about 1.5 cu ft - They make larger ones, but space and amp draw could be a problem. There are cheaper brands (of course) but they all use more energy - This is one area where you truly do get what you pay for

Then, you can do whatever you need to keep the batteries charged - A pair of large solar panels, a little Honda 1 KW generator, a wind generator . . . . whatever works for your situation. You could even opt to go with a second pair of CG's. If you use AGM's, they can be mounted anywhere - Under a bunk, under the Vee berth, under the sink in the head . . . . literally anywhere. One here, the other there and coupled together by #6 wires

Don

[WillieC]

"Fridge/Freezer 43 Qt.
4.1 out of 5 stars 30 customer reviews | 16 answered questions
Price: $909.99 & FREE Shipping"

Don's nailed it again, you could buy a lot of ice, not even "used block ice" to quote DesertAlbin out of context, for the 2 Large it would take. But then again it wouldn't be a boat!

But FREE Shipping is the tipping point for me! Or rather the Starfleet Commander.

Keep it up folks! This is all very enlightening. I, having just removed my all original Albin 25 Super Deluxe Styrofoam and Formica Twin Screw Refrigeration System (two screws held it in place), also have a gaping hole in the fiberglass just begging for a few thou upgrade. That stinking box is NOT going back in. Original or not. I like Steve's combination table storage/door concept and a portable cooler or two. And 46 days on the Salish Sea. That ought to cover most trips, especially considering the rum and cokes.

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks for the link to food storage, DA. I have saved the page to Evernote since the pdf downloaded is now out of date. Useful info there. But despite your success at ice-block life, I think my life would be made much more enjoyable aboard with a DC fridge/freezer, now that a relatively economical and easily installed solution is at hand. $1,000 bucks is a lot of dough, for sure, but one can imagine multiple scenarios (and alternate uses on dry land) where the cost might justify the convenience. I also think of salad and cheese and frozen meat in the tropics, like that.

Don - yep, a 1KW Honda is on my wish list, along with research on where to put the darn thing. Don't really have a lot of deck room for 100 Watt solar panel, so that is giving me pause.

Willie - my favoured unit is $849 CAD (what is that in Trump Bucks?) for the 60 l. one, with 2 compartments, one can freeze, the other fridge. No need for free shipping, the retailer is less than 30 kms down the road. He is getting the 60 l. unit into stock so I can see it and gauge the size within 2 weeks. Gotta get me one a them before I kill the earning cycle!

[Jay Knoll]

When we started our refit on our 27FC we thought that using ice would be the way to go given the fact that we weren't going to be living aboard full time; so I installed a Yeti cooler in the settee space forward of the main bulkhead -- I "packed out" the space with additional insulation so the yeti was a tight fit --you might say I built a cooler for the cooler.

It worked great during our tests at the marina using block ice. But then we left Vero and couldn't find any block ice at any of the marinas! Cubes in Florida melt fast, no matter how much insulation you have in the box, and we quickly got tired of bailing out the melted water and searching for more ice. The tipping point was one Memorial Day weekend when I went to buy ice and found that none was available! The marina hadn't ordered enough to meet the increased demand.

I installed an isotherm unit in the ice box and a bunch of solar panels, we use the yeti for cold drinks and stuff that isn't damaged by floating in water. The First Mate is very happy with the arrangement and we haven't regretted the decision for a minute.

[Beta Don]

You could live with a much smaller DC fridge if you kept all the cold drinks in an icebox, iced down when you could get ice - You could always put one or two drinks in the fridge for an hour or so before use when no ice was available

I can tell you from much experience, both on our 27 and on various sailboats that making ice will easily triple your amp draw vs just keeping things cold in a small fridge. We're iced tea fanatics, so we never go anywhere without ice. Our little fridge/freezer (2 cu ft fridge, 1 cu ft freezer) on our A27 was used to make 4 trays of ice every single day. Fill the trays first thing in the morning before we got underway and let the engine alternator power the fridge for the next few hours. The only problem was the days we spent at anchor or on a mooring where we weren't running the engine - We really ate through the amp hours on those days

We had more room on our last 34' sailboat and I had a 5 cu ft fridge which I had built in with 4 inches of insulation on all sides and 6 inches on the bottom. That plus a keel cooled compressor system really lowered the amp hours used. I also had four L-16 batteries (400 AH each bank, 800 AH total) and 240 watts of solar to power everything. We anchored one time for ten days before needing to start the engine! Sadly, there just isn't room to do all that on a small boat

Don

[Sunsetrider]

Well I figure it makes sense to keep the original icebox operational for block ice and pop/beer/bubble water. That will reduce demand on the portable top-loading fridge. But I have also been researching generators and have my eye on a 2KW portable unit similar to the Honda but less costly (the Generac ix2000 or something). But I have searched this forum and have not found a single useful suggestion as to where one would locate such a thing.

Any ideas anyone? Does anyone with an A25 do this?

It just seems to me that life aboard a small container like the A25 could be quite luxurious with refrigeration and AC/DC power available for fridge and whatever else might come along in a pinch.

After spending the past 3 years on electrical and fuel-related upgrades I hanker for some upper-level improvements! LOL