Building a real rub rail for an A27

[Sprig1]

Hi all I'm trying to build a real rub for the A27 not the cheesy one on it. Thinking about white oak. Will steam bend it around the bow. I'm open to all suggestions plastic or other types of wood. I'm going to rip a grove down the back of the rail to go over the lip sticking out and thru bolt. I have ipa wood but you can't bend that it would be good for the sides and stern but not the bow. Trying to figure something for the bow where it's bowed and wider. I would like to put the numbers there and make a nice transition to the ipa wood. Many possibilities thanks for your in put chris

[DesertAlbin736]

Interesting idea, but from my experience with using white oak for name boards, they don't hold up very well & I scrapped them & made new ones out of mahogany. That's not to say mahogany would work for what you're thinking of either. In fact I've had problems with the gold lettering on my name boards holding up as seen in this photo. I used gold acrylic craft paint which has since deteriorated & just the other day I pulled the boards off to re-do the lettering, perhaps this time with actual gold leaf over epoxy.

DSCN2058 (1280x960).jpg

But to your issue, what about 3 strand rope for a rub rail, like this guy did? That would look very "salty" and the wood wouldn't get dinged up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRTBlsgP68g

And here this same guy talks about wood splash rails using pine. Anyway if not white oak or pine, what about cedar?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9a-qARYex8



BTW, in these videos you can see by the registration numbers on the boat that the guy is in New Jersey. I happen to be a "Jersey Shore" native myself, and if you listen to his narration you can pick up a bit of New Jersey accent, which for me brings back memories.

[JT48348]

Need more info on what you're trying to accomplish ...

[Beta Don]

Hi all I'm trying to build a real rub for the A27 not the cheesy one on it. Thinking about white oak. Will steam bend it around the bow. I'm open to all suggestions plastic or other types of wood. I'm going to rip a grove down the back of the rail to go over the lip sticking out and thru bolt. I have ipa wood but you can't bend that it would be good for the sides and stern but not the bow.

I love Ipe wood and used it for all sorts of things (I made a super heavy duty bow sprit out of laminated strips of it) and I agree it would make a very tough rub rail - Perfect choice, as you'll never need to varnish it. I made new, much larger stern quarter rails from 1 1/2" by 1 1/2" Ipe wood and extended them farther forward than the little teak ones that came on the boat. I covered them with 1" solid stainless 'D' channel . . . . not the flimsy little stamped stainless that came on the boat. I did through bolt those as it was easy to get to the nuts inside below the berths in the aft cabin. Ipe is as indestructible a species of wood as you'll find - It's so dense it doesn't float!

Instead of trying to bend a thick chunk of it, slice it in 1/4 tp 1/3" thick strips and bend them one at a time, gluing each layer together with epoxy. It would be quite difficult to get access in many paces to through bolt it - I would suggest attaching the first layer with #10 stainless self tapping countersunk screws every 8 inches into the fiberglass (drill the Ipe first) and then when you put on the second layer, use longer screws staggered so they are 4 inches from the first set - That way you'll have screws into the fiberglass hull to deck joint every 4 inches, which should give you all the strength you'll need, not to mention a much more secure joint than the original pop rivets. For the last layer, use small stainless or monel finishing nails to hold the third layer on while the epoxy sets up. In the end, you'll have a rub rail that will resist any piling . . . . . something every A27 really needs!

Don

[Sprig1]

Hi Don thanks for the reply. What type of epoxy did you use? I tried to laminate a taff rail before and did not have much luck. I was using west system. It fell off the boat when I was fitting it and promptly sank I had to dive for it took me three hours to find it. Ended up burning it in the fire.
Desert albin I like the rope but will try the wood first. Thats surprising about the white oak. A friend has it on his wooden sail boat it's holding up pretty well. I guess it all depends on how it grew. Mahogany is much better wood for signs but to soft for rub rails.
Here is what I've come up with so Far on the rub rail. It's three inches wide 1 3/8 wide wish it was a true 1 1/2 it would fit better. 1/8 gap at top . It a 1/4 inch thick where grove is cut. This only a template the real one will be closer tolerance. Here's some pictures

[Sprig1]

Here's a picture

[rnummi]

Brilliant idea. How about mahogany? HD down here sells it in the same profile you are using. My other thought would be to just glass the whole thing over covering your through bolts etc.

I was over thinking the same thing while working on other parts of the boat. How would I....

1. How does the A25 do it?
2. How about just going around section by section prying the two halves apart, injecting 5200 compressing or bolting as you go?
3. They actually make replacement rub rail in the form you are contemplating, in fact you can pretty much find any type of cross section.
4. I agree, the new rail must go as far as the hull and deck taking impact off joint.
5. Deserts rope trick does that for the top but. It the bottom.
6. You could really go nuts by getting a piece that goes up to the top of the molded toe rail then creating a real toe rail on top.

Just a few of my hairbrained schemes to fix what should have never been an issue in the first place.

[Jay Knoll]

I don't know.................. yeah it fits really well in a short prototype but I don't think you'll have a lot of luck bending that cross section to conform to the hull's curve. You've got two relatively thick cross sections joined by a relatively thin section. And, you've got a great water catching gap between the toe rail and the rubstrip. You might be able to narrow it down with careful fitting (if the wood doesn't break) but you'll also need a ton of bedding compound to seal it off -- if water gets in there and you've got any leaks in the hull deck joint I'm pretty sure it will find the weak spot. I think that Don's idea of building up a rail with narrow strips is a safer way to approach this.

I recall that Hal Roth wrote about this in one of his earlier books (Two on a big ocean?) when he had to repair their boat after running aground in south america. I think they did a build up of fiberglass and resin and then rounded it off and put a metal rubstrip on the repaired area. Maybe some one else on the forum has the book and can post a pic of the pertinent section.

[JT48348]

The reason I asked what you were trying to accomplish is because I've considered the same idea. But I've come to the conclusion that it's an inherently bad idea to try and make the A27 hull/deck joint flange more robust in order to serve as a "bumper" or fender for your boat. It's relatively brittle for the purpose and if damaged you create a leak below deck. I think you cover the hull/deck joint with a basic rubber extrusion. You can get something with a more meaty profile that the original if you want something that looks a little better. But if you want to protext your boat from a piling or lock wall, I think there's another way to go. Instead of adding wood to the rub rail, I've two out of the box ideas, both of which I intend to try on my A27.

Option #1: improve the aft rub rails. At the aft end of the A27 are two teak rub rails about 12" above the water line. They are wholy undersized. I'm going to replace mine with rubber D-fender extrusion. It comes in two applicable sizes DR-50 and DR-75. You can through bolt it via the aft cabin lockers, or you can mount it with screws similar to the way the original teak rubbing strakes were installed.

dfender extrusion photo2.JPG

dfender extrusion.JPG

Option #2: This one takes more commitment. Add a rubbing strake to the side of the hull, so that it stands proud of the hull/deck joint by at least one inch. In this case I would take PVC trim lumber 2x2" cut down and then fixed to the hull using special glue that bonds PVC to fiberglass. This is actually done quite often for beefy spray rails on boats. Google: diy pvc spray rails and you can read all about it. The glue is Plexus MA530. You get it from Jamestwon Distributors, can apply with caulking gun and it sets in less than 15 minutes. You and a partner can literally hold the PVC to the hull and super glue it in place. Now you have a rubbing strake that protects the hull and hull/deck joint.

[Sprig1]

Thanks for all the ideas. It gives me a lot to think about. As usual I don't know which way to turn. All I know is what is on there now is more then useless. Even a little bit more protection would solve a lot of problems.

[sail149]

JT I Like the glue on pvc . Plexus is really good adhesive. The fiberglass to fiberglass version is amazing.
The big issue for what ever you do is the changing flare of the hull toward the bow.
Whatever you add will have to be huge in this area.
-The rivets holding the OEM inner plastic help hold the joint together there should be something there.
-The addition of lots of new screws into weak thin fiberglass at this joint is just inviting risk of more places for leaks.
-I saw a good idea of a 3/8 or 1/2" dia SS rod half embed into a mid hull rub rail , it would be a great way to protect any wood or plastic rub rail , way better than a little curved SS strip in the catalogues.
-a solid pvc or uhmw(cheaper) with a groove to match the original black rubber would bend to fit and heat might be needed.
- Capt vic fiberglasssd over the rail. This might be a good option if you removed part of the lip sticking out. I would want to wrap it as high and low a possible, getting a nice appearance might be hard but a regular wood or plastic/Rubber strip could cover quite a bit or even a flat strip of SS. But non of the materials are cheap.
-A flat surface after fiberglassing gets you all sorts of options of rail you could attach.

- finally, I wonder if it's worth the large effort involved? These boats are 30-35 years old and they made it this far....... and I think the leaks from hull to deck are over blown, I think the leaks in this area mainly come from the windows or portlites. Rather than put all this effort and expense into protecting the rubrail why not put the same time and effort into a bow thruster that would help avoid those piling hits. (How did you like your thruster Don?)
Just some thoughts , cheers warren

[JT48348]

Sprig: whatever you decide to do, can you you take some measurements and photos of the cleaned hull/deck joint lip for future research. We could then compare that to the below catalogue and find the beefiest extrusion possible. Which one do you think might cover the lip?

Here:
http://www.wefcorubber.com/PDF/marine/R ... Hollow.pdf

[Beta Don]

- finally, I wonder if it's worth the large effort involved? These boats are 30-35 years old and they made it this far....... and I think the leaks from hull to deck are over blown, I think the leaks in this area mainly come from the windows or portlites. Rather than put all this effort and expense into protecting the rubrail why not put the same time and effort into a bow thruster that would help avoid those piling hits. (How did you like your thruster Don?)

I should dig up the pictures I took of the A27 in the slip next door to Rick's in St Pete - The rub rail and hull to deck joint were basically destroyed - Several feet of it on both sides of the boat. I *assume* the worst of the damage was caused by the boat banging around in the slip during a storm, but it lowered the eventual resale price of that boat by at least 2/3rds. Rick can probably tell us about what Fred bought it for . . . . I know it wasn't much

Loved the Bow Thruster! - Used it nearly every day. If you're going cruising and will be going into and out of transient slips in marinas you've never been to before, it's indispensable - Also makes picking up a mooring ball much easier. Fighting the winds and currents in places you've never been to before is 100 times easier when you can put the bow right where you need it, no matter what the winds, waves, tides and currents are doing . . . . plus, it makes you look like a pro when the inevitable audience shows up to watch your boat handling skills, or the lack thereof. Take my word for it, in many marinas and mooring fields, the #1 'entertainment' of the day is watching a husband/wife team maneuver the boat!! - At times, it really can be entertaining (and humbling). I think everybody is watching to see if you know something they don't . . . . or more likely, if you DON'T know something they do

Don

[sail149]

Re rub rail damnage
I have no doubt it would get destroyed by storm or a neglected boat tied badly in a dock but if you look after your boat maybe you don't need tug boat fendering for an 8000# boat?
Thanks for assurance on now thruster, I paid a lot for a replacement motor for it!

[rnummi]

Master Chris.... what did you decide to do. My boat is going to adjuster's to "quantify" damage. Gee, I can't wait.