MD17C in A25

[Beta Don]

I've never understood all the hoopla about 'shaft alignment' - Which is actually a misnomer. You don't 'align' the shaft, you align the engine to match the shaft

With a good shaft packing so that the shaft is centered in the stern tube, the flange on the shaft is the reference - You don't mess with that. You carefully move the engine so that the transmission flange ends up exactly parallel with the shaft flange and correct up, down, left and right and you use a very fine feeler gauge between the flanges to insure they are exactly parallel - You want an even drag on the feeler gauge as you move it 360 degrees around the flanges

The 'talent' required is to understand which engine mounts need to be adjusted and in what direction to improve the misalignment you have at the moment. Once you have the engine sitting with about equal weight on all 4 mounts, you move them in pairs, front or rear - If you raise the right front half a turn, do the same with the left front. If the two flanges touch at the top and nowhere else, you have to lower the front engine mounts, which will also raise the trans flange a bit because the engine will be pivoting on the rear mounts which are in front of the flange, so the rear mounts will have to be lowered a bit too - Maybe half as much as your front adjustment, but whatever is needed to get the flanges back to the same height

The good news is, even a rank amateur can do this and do a good job of it if you have enough patience. Make small adjustments and keep checking the match of the flanges. Slide the shaft back away from the trans flange a quarter inch or so, make your adjustment and slide the shaft flange forward to check it's match with the trans flange. Figure out what your next adjustment should be, slide the shaft back a quarter of an inch, make the adjustment and slide the shaft forward again and check your work. Repeat 20 or 30 times and you're all set!

You will learn (eventually) what adjustments will improve the match and which make it worse, just keep remembering that the shaft and it's flange is the gold standard and cannot be moved up or down, left or right - Only the engine/trans is moved and the shaft flange is to check your work

You NEVER want to have to pull the two flanges together with the coupling bolts - If they don't freely slide together where a very fine feeler gauge tells you they are touching all the way around, continue the process of moving the engine until you're sure they are absolutely parallel. All the bolts and nuts run down finger tight should give you the same feel with the feeler gauge when you stick it between each pair of bolts - That means everything is parallel

After you've done this on half a dozen boats it doesn't take all that long . . . . maybe an hour or so. Your first attempt may be interrupted by darkness and you'll need to continue the next day, but don't give up on it. Keep working until you get it perfect. A lightbulb will go off when you finally figure out what needs to be adjusted to improve the match and things will speed up after that

There ARE some things you can do a better job of than the guy in the boatyard and this is one of them . . . . and when you do it, you know it's perfect - True, he may get what he considers an 'acceptable' match in only 20 minutes or so, but you can almost guarantee his match will not be as perfect as yours . . . . assuming you take enough time to get it right. If he does it without using a feeler gauge, you don't want him doing it at all, IMO

Don

[WillieC]

You nailed it Don. for me the challenge is using the old VP mounts. They sit low and use shims underneath them for alignment. None of this fancy dan turn the nut a quarter turn and check. Oh, no.
I went through this whole exercise last spring when trying to solve the shaft noise and wobble. At that time I installed a mid-shaft(ish) support and found out how bad my mounts were and consequently, the alignment. Replaced the two rear engine mounts and did a passable job aligning the engine and what a difference it made. Now I will be replacing the front four (2 pairs of 2 mounts) and redoing the whole thing. I agree, even with the shims it is not that difficult. I scrounged around the shop finding various thickness of metal I cut into pairs to give me more to choose from than the one size fits all I had available under the existing mounts. An added challenge is that since the original engine bed does not provide mounting that is co-planar, moving the front mounts forward slightly raises the front of the engine. The rear mounts appear to be much closer parallel to the crankshaft so a forward shift should not change things, much.

I considered changing the mounts out, but my set up is so low, replacements are too tall. Oh, and I am cheap.

The plan now is to strip the wheelhouse floor, remove tank, batts, floor support structures and clean, clean, clean. Paint where sensible, and clean some more. I like the fiberglass gelcoat finish on the engine belly pan, so I may leave it unpainted, but surely waxed and buffed. There is a gap between the engine belly pan and the side walls separating the fuel tank and the battery compartments. What a disaster of a design flaw. Hmm, if anything leaks, I wonder it it would seek that low point in the crack too small to get a screwdriver into? Looks good to me, Sven! Go ahead and radius the sides of the pan to ensure nothing will pool on top. And besides, we're installing Volvo Pentas! Nothing is going to leak. Sure, go ahead and mount that oil filter on its side! What could possibly go wrong? Fuel lift pump? Oh yeah, there is an extra 8mm between the block and the side wall. Just make sure to mount it low and partly behind the engine mount so only skilled Swede's with TWO opposable thumbs and hands like the future leader of the free world can work on it.

Diverting, plugging, flashing this gap... No easy solutions are coming, yet. Half-inch caulk? Foam? Backer rod? Concrete expansion strips? Anyone, anyone, Bueller?

[DesertAlbin736]

Steve, your points are well taken, but I gotta see this baby run in the boat. I will likely leave the boat to my kids so they won't have to dig into ancient history to find something to blame on their dad.

I want to see it run too! I do hope we can get back up there again with our own boat next year (2017 is out) & maybe both catch the 2018 PNW Albin rendezvous if/when/where they have it. Heaven knows we need more A25 representation at those things.

[WillieC]

The hardest part so far was dragging the floor jack into the boat. I hope to have help taking it out.

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Think I'll hook up the trailer and go for a spin tomorrow, a very fast spin on a winding road. Might have to grease the skids. My luck it will tip forward before I get out of the driveway.

[Beta Don]

You just need a stout tree with a strong branch . . . . and a chain fall!

Don

[WillieC]

Yes, I am close. I have the chainfall, hmm. I have the shop door header, which I used before to haul the engine from my pick-up. You may have given me a great idea. Thank you!

[WillieC]

A productive and sunny day on the Canal.

I have "stuff" left over from the recent addition to our home. The 4X8 beams I have are only 90" long and that seemed a little steep, then I remembered the 16' platforms I made for doing the second story siding. THAT'S my ramp, with support.

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The alignment was less than stellar so going from flat to angled ramp ended up with a light corner. This thing is top heavy so you better be level. A few sphincter moments at the transition.

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Used a single 5/8" steel rod for forward motion. At the midpoint it was truly out of control. Too much for my old heart, so I added guides to keep it centered on the ramp and went to a smaller diameter rod to limit the travel.

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Why go any lower when I just have to haul it out using the chainfall in the shop. It shouldn't tip over, right?

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This pile came so close to heating the shop during the paint work. Think I'll leave it in the truck until I am done with the reinstallation.

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I recruited help but couldn't wait. Slow and steady and nobody gets hurt. The Starfleet Commander came down to witness and had to leave once it started down the ramp. I pondered that option myself.

[Beta Don]

Congratulations! - Ingenious idea indeed

Well, the same ramp and a come-a-long should be able to get the new engine back in there - No forklift needed! If you think there was some sphincter tightening going on with the old engine coming DOWN the ramp, just wait until it's the new engine going UP the ramp!!

Don

[WillieC]

Actually, Don, you gave me the stout tree and chainfall idea for putting the engine back in. I have a pile of pallets in the shop so I'll use the floor jack and the chainfall to hoist it up on the pile. Then I'll pull the boat alongside the door and I will have a much shorter and more level ramp to bridge from the shop to the boat. And then reverse the process inside the boat and slide it in. I didn't take it out that way because I wasn't too worried about dropping that old pig in the gravel, and the shop is not ready for your stout branch idea.

[DesertAlbin736]

That is so cool. A masterful bit of MacGyver engineering. You know this is the first time I've seen a photo of your boat! I hadn't realized that your hard top covered the whole cockpit. All along I've pictured it as being more like our boat with just a canvas enclosure over the back half of the cockpit. Wow, that engine is a monster! Must be something to see running with that big honkin' flywheel spinning.

Reminds me of a miniature version of those old abandoned Fairbanks Morse generators at the lime works in Roche Harbor.

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I will say one thing, this is probably one of the longest running threads on the board with 99 replies. We're all cheering you on with your epic project.

[WillieC]

I am so close to getting this thing running in the shop. That is the goal today. Maybe some pics tonight.

[WillieC]

SHE RUNS!! Pictures tomorrow. What a beast to bleed when everything in the system is empty. Couldn't tell if it was a problem with the cold start device or crap leftover in the injector pump from the repair shop. Black as hell and would not start. Well if it is black, it must be getting fuel, so why won't it start? Cranked several cycles, with lots of time to cool down the starter between attempts. Still lots of black smoke but no start. Then you start to second guess everything you did. But I did everything close to right. It has compression, I can barely spin it by hand, and it kicks back on compression strokes. So it must be timing, but that is not easily adjusted, thankfully, or I would have torn it all apart. So I opened the compression reliefs on all three cylinders just to clear whatever was accumulating in the cylinders and let it sit for a while. I spun it with the compression released then closed one cylinder and it started to fire, then another then the third and it actually ran for a few seconds without the starter pushing it. Then it died. Took a short break and tried it again and it started almost like normal, so whatever the heck was giving me grief resolved itself. Exhaust color cleared down to normal light grey and it runs all through the rev range as smooth as can be. Throttle stops, high and low are way out of whack, but that is easily adjusted. I am one happy camper.

[DesertAlbin736]

Nothing so satisfying as having all your efforts finally pay off! She'll be a real jewel when it's in the boat & spinning that prop!

We can just imagine once you got it going it looked something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl0e835H9ds

[WillieC]

A bit of a fiasco dialing it in. I should have stopped when I discovered I hooked up my battery charger backwards. Then it got worse. A very frustrating day and more fixing than forward motion.

Yesterday tore the anti-freeze side apart looking for the broken bits of water pump vane then realized after replacing the impeller and running that it ran much cooler. I stole the piggyback pump from the engine I am replacing. Now that the engine runs noticeably cooler I deduced that the impeller broke while on the other engine and those parts (which i could not find) are in the junk engine. Score one for me. By the way, it is easy to incorrectly hook up the hoses to these pumps.

The biggest issue, apart from the unseated as yet rings, was getting it started. I never dug into the governor, hoping against hope that all was well on that part of the crankcase. The fuel system is practically like new, rebuilt injector pump, calibrated injectors, timing as close as I can get it. But the governor and the cold start device. Careful, careful. I had lots of black smoke but no ignition. Apparently not enough for how these engines start cold. I finally had to pull the governor cover off the rear of the engine and see what the heck is going on. Hugely long and drawn out affair that had me pulling the water pump off since it was in the way (that's how I know how easy it is too hook up hoses backwards). Anyway, the throttle lever attaches to the governor control arm that sticks out of the crankcase. That is where you set the idle speed. Turns out with the idle speed set too low, what happens is that the governor pulls the arm that controls the injector pump back as it tries to rev. If set incorrectly it pulls it far enough back to disengage the cold start mechanism, restricting fuel flow, and it stalls. With a wad of unburned fuel in the cylinders. Black as night. Once I pulled the cover off, I initially hesitated not wanting to spew engine oil all over the place, I could see what was happening and easily made the necessary adjustment. Stuff they don't tell you in the repair manual.

Today's test was to see how hard it is to start stone cold. Took a bit of cranking but it did fire, black as hell as I expected, but it did not disconnect the cold start mechanism until I pulled the throttle back. Just like it is supposed to. It settled right down and I let it warm up, varying the throttle, not just leaving it at idle. All the while the blue smoke is abating, as I hoped. Once the engine warms up, the rings expand and bite into their newly crosshatched cylinders, all according to Hoyle. Readjusted the idle down to where it is supposed to be. For whatever reason, the upper throttle stop allows too much travel, so I had to put in a longer bolt. It is almost like the rebuilt injector pump is moving too much fuel. We'll see what happens once it is in the boat and under load, though a properly functioning governator should compensate.

There are a couple minor fuel leaks but THAT'S IT! With new expansion plugs in the heads and exhaust manifold and re-use of old gaskets at the oil pump (the inner cover shim) and the existing flywheel seal, not to mention the untouched transmission, I had plenty to worry about. I am very happy with the results. I hate a messy engine pan. More than once, while combing the engine with my flashlight looking for leaks, I spot what I think is oil only to find it is shiny, dry, Volvo green paint reflecting the beam. This is good.

Lots more to do, but not today. Threw another log in the stove and cranked up Lyle Lovett and fell asleep in my chair and thought of my dad who, in spite of a lot of things dad's do, showed me how to turn a wrench some fifty years ago. Thanks, Dad.

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[DesertAlbin736]

Wow! Can't say it's not a learning experience! At least the Volvo has a cold start mechanism. With the Yanmar we don't have glow plugs or any other sort of cold start assist. Anything under 60* cold start & we have to crank and crank several times to get the 3GM30F to fire up.