Albin quality control

[bruceoconnor]

I have spent the past 5 years correcting problems with my Albin 28TE that were caused by shoddy manufacturer practices. The support from Albin has been non-existent - Ed Nowarski, who is supposed to be dealing with engineering and manufacturing, will not respond to e-mails or telephone calls.

Has anyone else had these experiences? I don't want to burden you with the details, but will share my experience if I find that others are similarly situated. Perhaps we can come up with a way to make the company and its dealers more responsive.

[chiefrcd]

Yep...I've tried to contact Albin numerous times with NO reply. I started dealing with my local Albin Dealer in Deltaville and they can't do enough. Great people to work with. They brokered my 1999 and I bought it from the orginial owner. They even provided me with schematics (sp?) of all of the systems on the boat. The orginial owner also made a "BOSS" book of the boat which is similiar to what the USCG does with it's small boats. The book is a complete collection of all of the systems manuals and information on equipment that is installed on the boat. Can't tell you how many times I've refered to it. Even though the boat was only 5 years old, I've had some significant repairs. Major items at least from a cost/difficulty stand point are:

Replaced the bow thruster (motor burned out)
Replaced the steering cylinder
Replaced the anchor windless control box
Replaced all the head lines ( waste )
Installed the valve seal kit from Yanmar in the engine.
Had the heat exchanger cleaned out and re-installed with new hoses.
Replaced the entire sea water pump.
Installed an extended hard top over 1/2 the rear deck.
Installed a new hand rail around the cabin top.

[Mariner]

We've only owned our Albin since October, so I only have so much experience at this point with the boat. But so far, there have been a few little things that bothered me. First the shower leaks. That's not an Albin problem, but it seems as if the part used was low quality. On the other hand, I'm told that Saberline used the same product with the same poor results, and they have a very high quality reputation, so I can't fault either of them too much. Two stanchion posts have broken off of their studs. Albin attempted to use a unique and probably less labor intensive product here with just one stud instead of the more common three bolts to attach them to to the deck. It obviously didn't work very well. Still, it's not a big deal to fix, so I have minimal complaints there. The benefit is a sleeker looking stanchion, which I like. The fit and finish of the cabinets has been annoying. Virtually all of them required some shaving to open and close properly. I suspect this is largely due to the fact that the boat was relocated to a much more humid climate. Still, the clearances should have been measured at the factory as part of the QC. The trim tabs stopped working, from what I can only assume is an electrical short somwhere in the boat. This would be less of a problem if Albin had supplied any sort of wiring diagram with the boat, but they didn't (more on that later). Leaks have developed on the flybridge. One is due to poor engineering (drains under the seats clog and water backs up and then drains into a rigging tube), and another is an poor installation by the dealer or previous owner (not Albin's fault, but exacerbated by the other problem). There is one window seal that seems to leak, but I'm suspecting that it also may be caused by the flybridge leaking. The shower sump drain is finicky and sometimes gets stuck on or off. I think this is partially because of a low quality part, but also partially the fault of the shower leak causing water to constantly accumulate in the sump (encouraging the growth of algae).

Each of these problems alone is minor and difficult to attribute directly to Albin. However, all of them together point to a pattern of poor QC. This is, after all, a boat that had been in production for nearly 5 years by the time ours came off the line. It is somewhat understandable, however, when you view it in the context of what I was told by an Albin representative at the 2005 Seattle Boat Show. He told me that Albin discontinued the 36' Express Trawler becuase it was too labor intensive and they were losing money on every copy. When you look at the price and what we paid for what we got, I think it's just fine. Of the boats tha met our criteria of size and accomodations, this boat was a full $100,000 cheaper than the competition. We felt that although it wasn't top notch, it was leagues ahead of the cheaper boats like Bayliner (I'm sorry, Meridian), and Carver. For the $200,000 price difference between the Albin and the Nordic Tug, we are willing to accept some minor repairs from time to time.

A lot of these problems would be less of a problem if Albin attempted to at least give the appearance that they gave a shit about their customers. Our last boat, a Camano Troll, was backed up by amazing customer support. The owner of that company was always willing to take your calls and help you troubleshoot a problem with your boat, even if it was years old and you were the second ownder. He even once spent about half an hour on the phone with me on a Saturday. I felt awful, but he really seemed to want to help. He had a passion for the boats he built and really cared. He, along with his production manager, showed up every year (twice a year) for the owner Rendezvous' to answer questions and give a seminar on something about the boat. He also provided dinner and booze for all the owners. Keep in mind, this is a company that has a higher production run than Albin, and sells them for a lot cheaper (smaller boats, obviously).
In contrast, any inquiries to Albin about technical problems are usually met with a deaf silence. They couldn't care less. What's more, they provide precisely NIL in terms of owner documentation. What we got was a box of manuals for all the component equipment, most of it probably dealer installed. Our boat has a VERY complicated electrical system. I honestly have to give Ablin a little credit for the fact that it even works like it's supposed to. However, it would have been nice if they'd provided some drawings, wiring diagrams, manuals...something. Anything would have helped. Their response to this has always been, "well, when you buy a new house they don't give you a manual." I beg to differ. They usually give you an "as-built" drawing. That would be a nice perk that wouldn't have cost them hardly anything.

On the whole, I like the boat. I think it's a well built boat and mostly rigged with high quality equipment. I do think, though, that in the desire to cut costs and make the boat profitable, they let their QC slip a little bit and some fit and finish suffered.

[Tuxedo]

I agree Ed Winarski (that's the correct spelling of his name) is useless. Calling Cos Cob works a little, but not much better. The one major problem I had (and remember I used to sell the boats and still have a good relationship with Fred Peters), I had to track down Terry Compton at his new venture to get it solved.

That said, Chief's list seems mostly age, wear and tear, preventive maintence related, enhancements or Yanmar problems. I don't see any Albin problems there.

Don't mean to rag on Chief, just trying to be a little fair to Albin. But still, the lack of a user manual and responsive customer support really takes away from their product.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Wow Chief,

Sorry to hear about all the replacement woes.

I to had to replace a steering cylinder. I plan on re-sealing the old one soon. The seal kit was purchased from sea star when I order the new cylider.

Does anyone know what the life expectancy is on a bow thruster? I would think that it would last pretty long since it's not used much.

[Mariner]

Elizabeth,

I would assume that a good quality bow thruster is expected to last essentially forever, given that it is properly maintained and protected. If the motor burned out, my conclusion would be that one of three things happened: 1. it had some sort of fault from the factory 2. it was exposed to water or some other damaging force or 3. it was run longer than it's engineering maximum.

The only parts I can see failing over time on a bow thruster would be the seals and possibly the actual motor windings. Other than that, wear and tear failures would be corrosion due to improper galvanic protection or broken blades due to sucking in an object.

The most likely cause of a premature failure of the motor would be over-use. Like all electrical components, a bow thruster generates heat. Since bow thrusters are intended for only intermmittent use, they are not set up with liquid or air cooling systems, relying on good old fashioned heat radiation to dissipate that energy. If they are run too long, or if the wires that supply the power are not large enough, they will overheat, which will cause damage to the motor windings. This is how they "burn out".

So, if a bow thruster burns out, it could be becuase it was a faulty part, or because the wiring was insufficient, or becuase it was over-used by the owner. Only a skilled technician familiar with the product could determine which.

[chiefrcd]

Tux, I agree, most of my problems have been routine replacement of things that just wore out. I'm very pleased with the quality of the boat in general. My issue has been just trying to get answers to questions about the boat from Albin. I stated somewhere in the forums, I'd just appreciate a reply to my e-mails....he can tell me to go kiss a skunk.....that's OK...just reply.
So far Albin has just ignored every inquiry I've made....totally dissed me....and when you plop down 100 grand you'd like just a little service....

[Ray Whitney]

I have had excellent luck getting replies to emails sent to Ed Winarski, always within twenty four hours. My request for information has always been simple things like prop size on new 31TE's. Source of items used on albin's etc. I am surprised to hear all the negative comments.

[jcollins]

I agree with all of the above.
When I was shopping for my next boat, Albin was not on the list. Then my wife fell in love with it and the rest is history. My first contact with them was to order the sales video/material from their website. It never did show up but I exchanged some emails with Bill Mulvey. He is the only person that has ever responded to an email from me. I truly don't know what his position is. I am told that Ed is very helpful if you can get him. He will not respond to email and getting him on the phone is simply by chance.
So, I started this site in hopes that it would attract the attention of Albin. I contacted them several times in hopes that we could get a link from the Albin site and they (Albin) could use this site for customer service. That has not happened yet but that is my intention.
"Great boat, lousy service" is what I heard from many friends before I purchased.
I too have the boss book that Chief mentions. It was started by the previous owner and I plan on keeping it up to date. It has been very helpful several times. Especially during my "learning curve". The second most valuable asset to my learning process is this board, others like it, and my friend Google.
Good customer service, in my opinion, is the most important part of any business. I pride myself in the way I treat my own customers because I know I'm not the smartest guy around.
We are talking about this rendezvous in September. Perhaps if everyone on the east coast (sorry Mariner) contacted Albin, someone from the factory will show up. I'll send a note to Louise and find out if she has contacted them.

[digitrade]

I agree that Albin in less than helpful. Also lots of production and engineering problems should not be there. Also I will never buy another new Albin 28.

But I do love what the boat has done for me for thousands of hours despite the problems and I would replace her with another Albin 28. But next time I would buy a boat one or two years old with only a few hundred hours that some other poor schuck has rebuilt for the factory.

[Denis]

First let me say I do not really want to bang on Albin. I love my 28TE and owning one gives me pride with every harbor I motor into.
Thanks to the first two owners of my boat for taking such good care of her and fixing any and all problems that might have come up and thank you also for sending along a manual for every mechanical item installed in my boat. They are invaluable to me.
A thank you to the Albin dealer in Newburyport, MA who sold me the boat and treated me like I was buying a brand new boat instead of a used one. He took care of every detail prior to selling me the boat and that included finding me a captain to deliver it to my marina.
Over the past year and a half I have e-mailed Ed Winarski at Albin many times with never a reply, so much for customer service. After many attempts to reach him by phone I was finally sucessful. I had seven questions for him. The most important one to me was that I needed a copy of a wiring diagram for my boat. He said they do not have one. I guess they just install wires helter skelter and hope that whoever runs the wire that day knows what he is doing. Five of the other questions he could not answer for me and finally he was able to answer a question about installing a through the hull transducer. Questions like how the bilge pumps are wired and how they relate to the three switches on the dash, what kind of shaft seal I have, if there is a larger holding tank available or if they have changed the head set up he was not able to answer nor was I directed to anyone that could help me.
I have come to the conclusion that it is up to me to learn every aspect of my boat on my own. I will not bother with Albin again.
I am so glad to have this site to bounce ideas off of and to read about how other Albin owners have taken care of this or that. John I want to thank you for starting up this site and giving us this place to share information. Denis

[chiefrcd]

I agree Denis, I could not be more proud to own an Albin 28TE and I looked for over a year at different boats. Too many boat shows as well, and I came back to the Albin every time. One of the biggest issues for me was headroom. It was the only 28 that I could stand up in. The head was big enough that I didn't have to grease my hips up and back into it. There were lots of nice features that was ordered on this boat by the previous owner. I think he got most of the options that I would have wanted. I also like the 28's ability to handle rough water as safety was paramount for me and my family. A huge benefit has been the single diesel, as the fuel efficiency is the envy of the marina. From day one I like the pilot house look and since I fish right through December, the pilot house with enclosure has been wonderful. All in all the boat has been all or more than I expected.....it is a shame that such a great product comes with NO factory support at all. How much would it cost them to hire someone to receive e mails, do a little research and send back an answer???

[johnmurray]

I would add my voice to those who have been disappointed by the lack of factory service from Albin. On the other hand my selling dealer has provided excellent after sale service.
Shortly after taking delivery of my Albin 30FC last year, I wrote a polite letter to Fred Peters, the President of Albin Marine, suggesting that they should provide some sort of owner's service manual with systems diagrams (similar to the one provided with a Hunter sailboat I had prrchased a few years earlier). I received a call back very quickly from a person named Smith (I think he was the sales director) who gave me the arguments against doing so (too costly, you don't get diagrams when you buy a house, etc). We engaged in a gentlemany debate for twenty minutes or so, and I had thought I had him convinced. I even suggested that they could hire a drafting student from a technology school for the summer to do it.
I am still waiting for my manual!

[fairtide]

Within several minutes of my posting a question about this group's possibly wanting someone from Albin to post replies concerning their boats, I came across older posts that squarely criticized Albin (the manufacturer) for not providing greater help.
Some of the posts named people who could be of help but did little if anything to keep customers happy. Dealers seem to have been of whatever help they could.
I recently purchased my 2006 leftover 28 from the Cos Cob location. I learned somewhere into the purchase that this was no longer a dealership, but rather "the manufacturer."
Craig Smith, director of sales and marketing, was my contact in the sale. He was as helpful as he could be, even in assisting in the purchase and installation of electronics. There were some questions that he was not able to answer, and I hoped that Peter MacKenzie who does the mechanical work for Albin at that site via his own business would be a resource.
Peter did return a phone call, which seems more than some of you got. We all know that keeping a boat running is similar to what automobile owners needed to do in 1930. We need tools, manuals, a sense of humor and lots of spare time during which we are willing to forego using our boats.
If our current automobile manufacturers were like boat builders, there would be far fewer cars on the road, less carbon dioxide in the air, fewer Interstate highways and fewer businesses that cater to drivers. A boat manual really is needed as is a recall by the manufacturer for defective items that are standard equipment on its boats.