Prospective A27 FC Buyer

[PaxRiverBoats]

My wife and I got to look at a 1985 Albin 27 Family Cruiser last Friday (12/2) , located about 2 hours away from where we live here in southern Maryland. The boat was on a lift, it had been shrink wrapped, and the elderly owner is motivated. The shrink wrap had a zippered door, and while we could not see much of the deck forward of the pilot house, we could see the cabin sides and the hull from the waterline down. We had full access to the cabin and engine spaces, and the fwd and aft cabin cushions had all been removed and stored ashore. The boat is cosmetically challenged, reflecting the owner's advanced age, but it has not been neglected. We were given a copy of the boat's winterization repair order, and told that we could call the company (specialists in diesel engines) to ask about the boat's maintenance history. In my mind, this is a good sign. The engine spaces and the original NISSAN diesel were spotless; the wiring, through hulls, and all machinery looked very good. There is no hour meter, and the broker told us that the elderly owner used her only locally, as the boat was on a lift at his house; and that's where we went to go and look at it. The boat has a good story, it seems low risk, and the price is pretty reasonable.

The brightwork (not anymore) needs a lot of work, but that is not a show stopper. I have read articles in this forum about how well these A27s respond to compounding and waxing due to generally good/thick gelcoats. The bottom, keel, rudder, and rudder shoe were in excellent condition, without MANY layers of thick bottom paint. There were a lot of positives with this boat, and it has spent the last 20-25 years on the same creek, hauled by the same yard, and maintained by the same people, and more importantly, by the same 2nd owner.

The big problem is the time of year. My wife an I need to discuss at length, but I like the boat enough to make an offer to hold it, but I'm trying to figure out how to delay the final deal until next spring when we can really take a good look at her. Just some thoughts here...!

I hope that everyone has a healthy and happy holiday season!

Best regards,

Ted & Marci Turner
Hollywood, MD

[JT48348]

Some thoughts:

1)have any of the significant issues typically affecting an A27 been already addressed by the previous owner? I.e.: the portholes & hatches, cockpit scuppers, cabin sides etc. Refer to the A27 Buyers Guide.

If not, then you must consider you will have at least one major job from the list ahead of you. That's not so much a bad thing but you should have a plan on how you will deal with it.

2) is it a freshwater boat? Even running on a inland river with access to salt water you have a salt water boat and should plan accordingly for the Nissan Ld28

3) Cosmetics are the easiest issue, so they should be low on your list of priorities. To me compounding a thirty years old A27 is a long term lesson in futility. And I personally would not consider the overall gelcoat or hull thick.

4) A cold weather boat show under shrink wrap is not a real boat showing. There are simply too many things that need to be checked and can't be done from shrinkwrap.

You can use all this as a strong negotiating point and really drive a hard bargain. Use the Buyers Guide and work the broker. Or simply wait till warmer weather.

[Beta Don]

Welcome to the forum! - Sounds like you've found a good candidate. I agree that you'll want to see it in the spring with the shrink wrap off and take a shakedown cruise before you commit to buy. See if you can talk the owner into an option to buy on a certain date with a $1K refundable deposit. He's not likely to get another serious offer over the winter anyway

Assuming the gelcoat is in good shape and is just badly oxidized from lack of care, wet sanding with 1000 and 1500 grit and then polishing it will give you an essentially brand new looking A27 - I didn't always think it was that easy, but looking at Rick's boat in person changed my mind in a hurry - *Beautiful* boat and it had been sitting neglected about as long as any 27 out there. I wet sanded mine by hand (Rick used a sander) with 400 grit and then 800 grit and then waxed it and it looked much better than paint . . . . at least to me. But . . . . Ricks boat has better gloss than when it was new! Seriously

IMO, painting over gelcoat which is in decent shape is a lot like painting your garage floor - Looks nice at first, but normal wear and tear will eventually have it looking much worse than what you started with before you painted it . . . . and then you're stuck, unless you want to sand and repaint it every few years. I believe painting is a last resort for a hull that's been so badly damaged you have no other choice. Other opinions may vary, but for two identical boats, I would take the one that hasn't been painted every time. You'll never see a 30 year old paint job that looks anything like Rick's 30 year old gelcoat

Don

[WillieC]

OK PaxRiver.

You've just heard from two of the best on the forum. I am fairly new to all things boating but these guys know their stuff. Hope you are taking notes.

[JT48348]

Ahhh...the great gel coat vs paint debate.

What Don failed to tell you, as he so often does, is there's another part to the (gelcoat) story. That part of the story is the one about its condition over time. It's not just sanding & compounding the gel coat. Sure you can bring back just about any gelcoat. How many times can you do it? On a 30 year old boat why would you? This is not a 1970s heavily laid up bulletproof classic plastic. Sadly this is not a modern heavy build from one of those yards known for beautiful fiberglass & gelcoat. Consider:

1) if you have ANY dings or gouges in the deck or hull, u can't cover them by just sanding and compounding. You will have a polished boat with dings and gouges. It is a rare 30 year old boat that has no scars. Maybe your prospective purchase is a rarity like Rick's? Better check under that shrink wrap.

2) if you have spider cracks or any gelcoat cracks or imperfections you can't cover those by just sanding and compounding. Knowing how the A27 was constructed, especially the deck hardware, etc. you'll want to double check this.

3) if your non-skid is worn or damaged, well you guessed it you can't sand or compound that either

4) repairing gelcoat on a 30 year old boat is extremely difficult assuming u want a repair to match

5) at any time if you or ur mate or ur kids or the Tow boat US guy drop an anchor on your deck or otherwise cause any of the above ---you can't sand and compound that. And any time u spent sanding and polishing your boat was wasted.

But now if your deck is painted... and at anytime u actually use or live on your boat for an extended period of time and it gets cosmetically damaged---you CAN easily sand and touch up with paint. From 5-10 feet away no one will be able to tell if the colors are right. In photo graphs it will look better. When you stumble home from the pub it will be the best looking---oooops! I just dropped an anchor on the toe rail. No problem. Where's the epoxy & touch up paint.

In any case, cosmetics are the least of your concerns if the boat is under shrinkwrap.

[Beta Don]

Why polish rather than paint? Because an average owner can do it for a couple hundred bucks and a quality paint job (which is NOT a DIY job for most of us) would be in the neighborhood of $5K or more. If I had to paint the topsides, I would never consider any one part poly and two part poly is both expensive and requires some expertise to get done right

I added a 36" 'sugar scoop stern' to my last sailboat and I had to paint to get everything the same color. I filled, sanded, primed, sanded again and applied 2 part Interthane Plus to the topsides and it looked great for awhile. I'd never do it again - Next time I had to paint I would pay an expert to do the job

Rick's boat had more dings and gouges than mine and it still looked very good when he shined it up. It's a 30 year old boat and they all have a few 'character markings' - That's to be expected. Gouges in gelcoat are all one color, where a painted boat has a different color (the gelcoat) at the bottom of each gouge. You'll probably be sanding and polishing it for the first time in it's life. You could probably do it 2 or 3 more times and still have gelcoat left, but if you keep a coat of wax on it once a year, you'll probably never need to do it again . . . . unless you're going to keep it for another 10 or 15 years

To each his own. Some people prefer fresh paint. That looks nice too, but normal wear and tear is much harder on paint (especially single stage paint) than it is on gelcoat. Buy it, do your $200 DIY polish on it and if you're not happy with the result, shell out the big bucks next year and have someone paint it . . . . and then be very careful each time you approach a wharf or a dock

Don

[JT48348]

I've reported my painting results and costs before, with a variety of paints, now the experience of 20 years restoring boats. I did it so can you.

When you get to your third or fourth boat you learn ur lessons the hard way and you wonder why you're doing things that just don't make sense. Like compounding this 30 year old boat. Not for me.

Lots of people with lots of advice. But few have actually run the race and have or can document the reality.

[PaxRiverBoats]

Thanks very much to all for the excellent advice on what to look for, how to hold the boat until the spring arrives, and just the general information -which is extremely helpful. We stepped down from a wonderful old family owned 1977 Broadwater express cruiser with a single V-8 and straight inboard to a 2004 Bayliner 22' express cruiser. The bayliner is actually a decent little boat, just not for us. It's skittish (deep V), an Alpha One I/O, and impossible to access the bow for line handling. At 22' it's actually got a nice bit of cockpit room, but the fwd cabin is cramped with a high step, and a small cabin door. Some younger couple will like owning it!

As for this A27FC, I like the$1,000 or $1,500 dollar deposit idea to hold the boat until the spring, when we can see everything we need to see, and get a good sea trial. As I said, right now, the Albin is on a lift, but the creek is brackish - not nearly as salty as the Chesapeake and Patuxent area where we live near Solomons Island. So, while not a freshwater boat, she seems to have been lightly used and professionally maintained mechanically less than 20 car miles from where the freshwater Susquehanna River enters the Chesapeake.

We have been boating on the Bay here as a couple since 1991, with a variety of boats. I'd like this one topan out for us!

Thanks for the great advice!

-Ted Turner
Hollywood, MD

[DesertAlbin736]

We have been boating on the Bay here as a couple since 1991, with a variety of boats. I'd like this one to pan out for us!

The 27 should be a great boat for the Bay. A 25 might be a good choice also if the 27 deal didn't work out. I can't add much more in answer your questions except to add an "amen" to Rick's (WillieC) comment.

If you read some of my many posts elsewhere on this site you may wonder, 'where in the world hasn't this "DesertAlbin" guy been with his boat'? This past summer our adventures took us far up the inside passage coastal waters of British Columbia from our launch point in Bellingham, WA. But last year in July, 2015 we were in your neck of the woods, having trailered to Blades, DE (down from New England & through NJ to DE via the Cape May ferry), launched on the Nanticoke River, ran the 35 miles down to the Bay and across to Solomons. From there up the Patuxent & St. Leonards Creek to Vera's Beach Club. If you've been boating in the area since '91 I'm sure you're very familiar with the story of Vera and her South Seas themed bar and restaurant. We also landed at the Sotterley Plantation wharf & toured the museum, just a hop, skip, & jump from St. Thomas Creek.

We did see this Albin 27FC at Vera's and met the owner, but I'm sure it's not the same one you're looking at.

DSCN2904 (1280x960).jpg

My point being that one of the major differences between the 27 and the 25 is that for a small sacrifice in size the 25 can be easily trailered anywhere you want to go without the hassle of wide load permits, and thus you won't be limited to your home waters. Like for example, if you had the time with a good aluminum or galvanized trailer and a decent tow vehicle, when it gets hot & muggy in July on the Chesapeake with all those vicious thunderstorms (I know from first hand experience, we rode out a few of them), you could go somewhere cooler like the Finger Lakes in NY, or Lake George in the Adirondacks to name a few. Just sayin'. In other words, you'd have the kind of portability like that 22 ft Bayliner, but with 12 to 13 NM per gallon fuel mileage. For example, this past summer in the Pacific NW we cruised 570 NM on 44 gallons of diesel. Show me any other power boat that gets that kind of mileage! And you'd have 5' 9" standing headroom in the forward cabin, and 6 ft headroom in the canvas enclosed pilot house.

[DesertAlbin736]

PS, the gelcoat finish on our 1971 hull still takes a good wax shine with minimal polishing & no heavy compounding. Our deck not so much, as the gelcoat is worn through in a couple spots on the foredeck, and the pilot house & cabin trunk has been painted by past owners.

[rnummi]

To both JT and Don... if I had the $ I would have painted it. JT paints and gets a virtually new pristine hull. Me, I was heartsick after discovering the horrible pilot house delamination and was determined to fix and sell at the minimum boat units I could get away with. That being said, I fell in love with the quirky boat, have literally buffed the stuffins out of her (every square inch)... know where each of my problems are and am a happy camper with the results. I was lucky in that my hull hadn't been horribly abused and I was able to bring it back. My deck is another story... also what neither Don or JT mentioned is the craptastic joint betwixt pilot house and hull. Sooner or later you are going to have to address and it just isn't possible to glass the joint without repainting. As in all things, a little of this and a little of that gets you to where you want to be. I have a little of JT in me from the USMC that cannot abide imperfections and flaws. I also have a little of Don in that I didn't have JTs skill set to tackle the paint. Only solution for me was elbo grease... ultimately though.... JT is right. Paint is perfection... buffing a 20 year old boat is a stop gap. Looks good from 20 feet, the dings stand out like a sore thumb from 2 feet.