Need bigger rudder

[Elizabeth Ann]

Sorry for the delay in my response, but I was visiting on the outer banks for a few days.
Yes there is a story behind my post. I have been boating for 18 years and I take pride in having my boat in control at all times. I know my 28 does not turn very well to port, at any speed, but it is especially bad when I need to make a tight turn to get lined up to back into my slip. Add a 15 knot breeze pushing my bow to starboard and I am screwed. Throttle, steering, bow thruster, nothing would help my situation and it basically pushed me sideways up against the pilings. Luckly, it was a very soft landing and I was able to pivot around to back in. A few days before my situation, I was on a friends 30' down east boat, I don't know the make, and he could put the nose of that boat anywhere he wanted. I know I still have a lot to learn about a single screw but a boat should respond when the wheel is turned. Sorry for the rant.

So you have a problem to port at any speed - huh? Most people here document starboard difficulties at moderate to high rpm. At slow speed I have above average control at the helm - even out of gear at nearly a snails pace. I mean it takes time to respond with a slow wash over the rudder, but this is something you become accustomed to.

Maybe you need to experiment more around your slip. There is no harm (or embarrassment) with putting your rub rail right on a pole to use for pivot, most professionals do that. Though I know it may scuff the rail.

Or maybe you can be the test boat for a stern thruster. I always imagine what it would be like, then the 28 would truly act like a twin diesel.

[jcollins]

well to port, at any speed, but it is especially bad when I need to make a tight turn to get lined up to back into my slip.

Backing to port? What's that? I gave up!
I usually have a crew member loop a line over the port-side piling. It makes backing into a slip easier. I'm just glad I'm not the only one having this problem. After 25+ years of boating it can bruise your ego when you look like a newbie.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Oh jeeze maybe I misread Denis' post. Is backing to port his problem? That would make sense.

[RicM]

No single screw inboard is going to back to both sides, prop walk to one side, depending on rotation direction will always win out. The rudder doesn't steer the boat at low speeds, it directs the water from the prop to one side or the other. When backing, the thrust of water is toward the bow, making the rudder useless. I have a slip to the side of a narrow channel that can be flowing swiftly at mid tide. I often have to "set up" well upstream, drift back, use the bow thruster to rotate to the proper angle, then hit reverse at the right moment to stick it between the pins. It's not always elegant but ask the pilots on this list, "any landing you walk away from....."

[chiefrcd]

Ric,
I'm right there with you. I sort of by-pass my slip and hit the bowthruster while hitting reverse, as the boat pivots and straightens out I put her in reverse and back her in. So far, after three years I've not made a total ass out of myself....at least not backing in.

[Mike]

the 28 TE turns like a pig. It takes PRACTICE. Love the boat - hate the tight turns - like in Annapolis Harbor. Gotta learn how to bump her.

[RicM]

Docking a boat is one of the hardest things I've ever had to learn. The number of variables makes it incredibly difficult. My standard rap is that it's like parrallel parking a car with no brakes while on LSD.
Today (Sunday) I was at Block Island Boat Basin for lunch with another couple on board. They assigned me a slip in the back row (about 32 ft wide fairway) all the way in and of course on the port side! Oh, and the dock attendent was pointing to a slip I had already passed while waiting for her to show up. The slips there have to be backed into as they consist of floating dock across the stern and 2 pilings at the bow. Knowing I could not back to port, I had to rotate the boat 180 in the narrow fairway. I put the rudder hard to port and left it there. Goosed it forward to kick stern to starboard, then reverse to walk stern to starboard. Minimal bow thuster. Spun it 180 like a charm (lot's of people on nearby boats watching thinking I was about to ding them). Now, with slip to my starboard stern, backed in without touching either piling. I felt like I just hit a home run at Yankee Stadium! The other couple bought lunch at the Oar they were so impressed.

[Mariner]

Docking big inboard diesel boats is a bit of an art. Once you get it down, though, it becomes second nature. The only times I get thrown for a loop anymore is when a sudden gust comes up at the last second, or if I'm towing the Whaler.

With the bowthruster, it's so easy it's not even fair.

[Elizabeth Ann]

...it's like parallel parking a car with no brakes while on LSD.

Priceless

[Denis]

One of the things that makes it worse, is that in 1994, the bow thruster they installed is a 23 kgf. I don't think that they used such a small thruster after that year. If there is ANY wind at all, that thruster does nothing to move the nose of the boat. On the day I was writing about, the wind, 10 to 15 mph, pushed the nose of my boat the other way as I used the thruster and also tried to turn it with bursts of throttle in forward and reverse. I have practiced out in the mooring field with the wind from different directions, I think I'll stick to my first rant, the sheet of plywood looks like a fix to me.

[gerygarcia]

Denis

I know how you feel. My bow thruster is less powerful than a good push from a hand.
(1994 model as well) I have a 40 ft canal to turn around in, sometimes with boats on both sides. It takes very accurate use of the bow thruster and rudder cocked all the way over to get it done without mishap.

I've had my share of "moments" where the wind was too strong for the thruster to have any usefulness at all. In these instances, I've use the throttle alot harder than some would be comfortable with. You just have to make sure you have a "exit strategy" if your boat isn't cooperating. If all else fails, a slow and "controlled" mishap is the best way to go (not panicking and using the throttle too much when close to other boats/poles and what nots.

In contradiction to boats like Sea Rays, Cruisers and other boats without skeg keels, the Albin 28 in my opinion holds steadier in a windy situation. I've seen much larger cruisers get taken off course while docking much quicker than the Albin.

Everyone at one time or another makes a slight ass of themselves with a crowd watching. It's just better doing it in an Albin in my opinion! You get to do it in style!

Gery

[RicM]

Respectfully, I don't think a bigger rudder would help. To rotate you have to stop. At stop to 1-2 knots the rudder doesn't do much of anything to steer the boat (ask a sailor) and port rudder in reverse is going to be overwhelmed by prop walk until you get up to well above docking speed unless you have a tiny prop and huge rudder (like a sail boat). Watch a lobsterman with a single screw, no thruster, plop himself right on the dock like he could do it blindfolded (he probably can). What's his secret? Practices every day until the boat becomes part of his body.

In the example I gave above I used the thuster only once in a 180 turn. Left the rudder hard to port and just went back and forth between forward and reverse with short (2 sec) squirts of throttle. once you have momentum in the rotation direction, bow to port, stern to starboard, you can go all the way 360 if you want, but ONLY counter clockwise. That's Albin.

[Mariner]

I've heard it called "cut-and-fill". Not sure if that's a technical term or not, but it fits anyway.

Cut the stern to starboard with the prop walk in reverse, fill it by popping it back into forward with the wheel hard to port. The boat will rotate roughly around it's pivot point.

I use a variation on that technique to "crab-walk" the boat to the dock. My g/f calls it "parallel parking". Approach the dock for a starboard tie. With the wheel to port bring the boat to a stop directly parallel to where you want to end up. Then, with the wheel to starboard, go back and forth between forward and reverse, and the boat will slide sideways right up against the dock. Unfortunately, you can't do the same on the port side.

[RicM]

I have always heard it called "Back and Fill" but it amounts to the same. On the 28 TE, even with the full (not cut down), rudder there is no need to work the helm back and forth. Just leave it all the way to port. In forward it directs the prop thrust to port, rotating the vessel counter clock wise and moving it slightly forward. Leave the helm alone and just hit reverse long enough to counter the forward motion, the prop walk will continue the counter clockwise momentum, and the rudder does nothing as you are not making any headway. Forward kicks the stern to starboard again. Repeat with application of thruster as needed or desired. It seems counter intuitive but try it, it works. The limitation of this boat design is that it's very difficult to do a port side tie up (lot's of thruster neded) or to back into a slip that is to the port side of your direction of travel (almost impossible). That's why I prefer to rotate 180 and back to starboard when presented with a slip to my port.

[Mariner]

That is exactly what I do. Our Camano Troll was the same, though its pivot point was farther forward, and had less mass below the waterline, and more windage above, making it slightly more prone to cross-winds, with further complicated the maneauver.

I think you're right with the "back and fill" term. That makes more sense. Cut and fill is more of an earth-moving/construction term.