How to bleed the fuel system on a Peugeot/Lehman?

[REO]

Got it started!
Someone mentioned that these engines can be hard to bleed. It was. Somehow I got a lot of air in the high pressure pump.
One of the reasons I had so much trouble bleeding the injectors was that I was reluctant to run the starter too long.
I finally cracked open all injectors and cranked the starter non-stop until clear fuel ran for one, then all the injectors. The starter got hot, but I think I got the injectors bled before damaging the starter. After things cooled down I preheated for a minute and it started after about 15 seconds of cranking.
Thanks to everyone who gave advice. I really appreciate the help.
Rick

[hetek]

Great news on the getting it started part!

Truth be told, you should really only preheat for about 7 seconds. I believe that's what my 4D61 original glow plug timer ran at. I've heard that if you preheat too long it will burn out the glow plugs. I found on my engine that 2 of the 4 glow plugs were bad. Once I replaced them it would start right up. When my timer died I replaced it with a solenoid with a button at the helm to activate it.

Press the preheat button... "One Mississippi, two Mississippi..." all the way to "Seven Mississippi". Let go of the button and hit the starter. Voila!

[REO]

Sounds like good advice. I will count the Mississippi next start up.
How did you test the glow plugs. Do you pull them and visually check? Are new ones available?
My preheat system was changed over to the button on the dash. Unfortunately somebody labeled the glow plug button "stop".
When the button didn't shut the engine down I traced the wires. Dumb!

[kerrye]

Testing glowplug depends on whether you have parallel or series type plugs. On series systems, if one plug fails, they all stop working. Series systems have very heavy wires which connect the glow plugs together. Series plugs are tested for continuity between the two places where the heavy wires connect. On my old Mercedes series system I could tell if one plug had failed because the connecting wires between the plugs were not glowing red when activated. Parallel plugs have light wires, typically with a single wire going to each plug. Parallel plugs are tested for resistance between the wire connect location and ground. Resistance should typically be one ohm or less (I think). Plugs can also be visually tested by removing and attaching to a 12 volt battery with jumper cables. Simply glowing at all is not adequate. They should glow bright orange quickly. Testing a new known-good plug visually will give a sense of what they should look like. Be very careful when testing visually. The plug will get very hot and burn you in an instant if touched.

[hetek]

My 4D61 had one heavy wire that connected all the top terminals of the glow plugs together, like a daisy chain. The rear-most one then had a wire that connected the chain to the timer or solenoid. I tested them with the resistance method. Disconnect the wires to isolate each one and measure the resistance from the top terminal to ground as kerrye suggested. I believe I had two that read as opens (infinite resistance) - basically they were cooked.

Glow plugs were available at my local NAPA Auto Parts, or online I'm sure. Look up glow plugs for a 1976 Peugeot 504 sedan with a 2112 cc diesel engine. The automotive plugs will work equally as well in a marine engine. I remember I bought Bosch ones and replaced all four to be on the safe side.

[kerrye]

In a pinch, if one plug of a series plug system has failed, you can jumper around it, bypassing the failure and get the other 3 to work.

[WillieC]

What do all you guys do with more than three cylinders?

[hetek]

Hmm... It is a fair question, WillieC. Let's think about that one...

Considering an A27 has a hull speed of about 6 knots and when I had "Bunkie" I would reach hull speed at 3,000 rpm. According to the Lehman performance curves for the 4D61, it produces about 50 brake horsepower at that speed.

So, a three cylinder 50 hp diesel would work, I imagine, but I don't know of any off hand. My 3 cylinder Vetus is only 25 hp and Yanmar's current highest output marine 3 cylinder is 39 hp.

The 4 cylinder 4D61 puts out 61 hp at 4,000 rpm, so to answer your question, the answer might be "hull speed in a 27' Albin with a little extra horsepower to spare".

We also put glow plugs in 'em and learn how to bleed the fuel system!

[WillieC]

Hetek, I didn't know anything about diesels until we bought our A25 a couple years ago, other than the Mercedes my father's navy buddy owned way back in the fifties. Even most of my dad's tractors were gas, then I moved out and he could afford diesels. Smoking, stinking hard starting, some even had pony motors to get them running. Then i learned a little about glow plugs, which I figured had to be part of every diesel.
Then we bought the Albin. Three cylinders, Volvo Penta, no glow plugs, no place for a torch or cigarette like the old Sabbs I had read about. I keep learning.

[hetek]

No worries WillieC -

My A27 with the 4D61 was my first diesel too! Some engines don't use glow plugs, true, but the 4 cylinder Peugeot block just seems to suck all the heat out of the combustion chamber so that preheating with the glow plugs makes it start easier. If they have 'em, use 'em. Hey, mine even started with only two working plugs!

[sail149]

In the UK the ubiquitous Ford Transit delivery van in the 70's used a York/ford 4 cyl diesel without gold plugs, As they got older they got harder to start so the standard trick was to use 2 batteries to spin the engine long enough for it to start in the winter. They even came from the factory with a dashboard mounted squirter pump for easy start/ ether to help them start!
( but remember be very carful using easy start if you have a glow plug engine like ours).
But more interestingly when investigating the use of the Peogeot/ 4D61 diesel in delivery vans on a rebuilders site they reported they can damage /crack their cylinder heads if the injectors are not working right espically when they 'lug' the engine in too high a gear up hills etc. IE:change down and keep it spinning don't try and use the torque alone .
The lesson to learn is that the injectors need to be in good condition to help the engine run right and good injectors always help in starting. Unfortunatly injects are a lot more expensive that glow plugs or gas engine spark plugs so don't get replaced or repaired very often. But they are usually repairable if you cannot find new.
A good diesel repair shop can fix the sealing if they are leaking and adjust the opening pressure by shimming the internal spring. The opening pressures vary to suite different engines.
Warren