A25 Headliner Question

[stxray]

Hey Guys,
I'm in need of ideas/suggestions on how best to clean the interior hull surface after removal of the headliner.

My headliner (the vinyl covering on the inside of the hull) was in pretty bad shape so, I removed it. When I did, what I found was that the foam backing was hard and brittle and turned to dust when touched. I scraped and vacuumed the surface and now I'm left with a glue and foam dust residue.

My original plan was to just throw a coat of paint on it and come back at a later date and cover it with either a new headliner or even a 1/16" plastic panel material. Problem is all those want a clean, dust-free surface.

I tried sanding with a Polycarbide Abrasive wheel. That takes it off but is very slow and tedious. I tried wiping it down with acetone. That seemed to take off what remained after sanding but does nothing where I've yet to sand and it too is incredibly slow.

So, unless I can come up with a effective way of obtaining a properly prep'd surface, I'm thinking I might just paint over the as-is surface or glue the 1/16" plastic panel with 5200 and see what happens. What do you think?

Please chime in.

[JT48348]

1) Definitely don't just glue panels to the interior of your boat. Panels need to be installed with battens. If you use panels, Glue the battens to the bulkheads and screw the panels into the battens.

2) Don't use 5200 for anything you might want to ever remove. Don't glue the panels to the hull using 5200.

3) Try a 4" angle grinder with a 40-60 grit flap disc. Wear a respirator and eye protection. This should get you to a clean surface.

4) In my A27 headliner project I eventually came to the conclusion that it might be possible to sand the interior to bare hull and then paint. I didn't do this all over--but I did do it in my new shower area and the area immediately around the fwd cabin to cockpit hatch. I think on an A25 it might be easier to do tthis due to 1970s construction.

Here's how I did it:

- on factory A27 hull, don't waste your time with a sander, use an angle grinder with aggressive flap disc.

-you must have safety gear: mask, goggles, gloves because everything will vaporize and the angle grinder is very aggressive and can be dangerous working on the ceiling.

- follow this regimen for sanding/grinding: grinder 40-60, then 100-150; Fill imperfections with skim coat hardened epoxy; then by palm sander 150-220.

- prime and paint

- this assumes you have already fixed leaky deck fittings, and moved or hidden interior wiring etc, and ur okay with no insulation on the interior

[stxray]

Hello JT,
Thanks for the advice. I'm back from the store with an angle grinder, 40, 80, & 100 grit flap disks. Also came home with an actual respirator and face shield. The little dust mask just wasn't doing it. I'll see how it goes.

I'm wondering if, rather than grinding clean the entire hull, it might not be better to clean/grind just strips to which I could glue battens and then fasten the panels as you suggest. I could rip 3/4" strips of 3/8" plywood and glue them to the hull. Since they would not ever need to be removed, I'm thinking 5200 would be good to use. Using 3/8" ply should allow the strips to conform to the slope of the hull. What do you think??

[kerrye]

I used a wire brush to scrap off the remaining glue before priming the surface with XIM 11022 and then painting with a latex paint with anti-mildew resistance. I think it worked out fine.

[kerrye]

Some pictures of the primed then painted areas.

[JT48348]

That all sounds good. I think kerrys is a good solution if u want to avoid battens and panels. Panels are a lot of work and require detailed patterns and trim work. The decision is yours depending on the finish and effort you want. By using panels you can line the hull between the battens with Reflexit which is bubble wrap coated in alum finish it has a marginal R value. I've used this before and like the product for lining ceilings. Also u can find it at the big box stores. This gives you some insulation.

If you glue battens, consider using 1/4" lattice from a big box store. Shorter pieces solve the problem of having to match the contours of the hull. In addition 5200 is good but you might save $$ going with PL Marine adhesive which u can get at Lowes for about $13 a tube. That's what I used.

The A27 has a much worse hull finish than the A25 I gather. On the A27 chopped matte & meat hooks were visible requiring an aggressive sanding

[kerrye]

I like the bare hull over a liner as any leaks are easier to detect with a bare hull.

[stxray]

I've got a wire brush too. I'll try that as well. Update to follow

[kerrye]

I used two styles of wire brushes to clean off the old dried glue and foam. One had a handle and the other was like a scrub brush which I grabbed with two hand and drew across the surface.

[stxray]

*** Update ***

Port side rough cleaning done. Will go back in for finishing after completing the Starboard side.

First, let me thank JT & Kerry for sharing their experience. It really made a big difference.

So, here's what I did...

After reading Kerry's post about using wire brushes, I thought I would give that a go. Since I already had the angle grinder (and given my philosophy of why do anything by hand when there's a power tool for that) back to the store I went. I picked up a wire brush set that included a knotted wire cup brush and a crimped wire cup brush. The knotted brush is pretty heavy duty while the crimped brush is not so much.

I started with the crimped brush but quickly switched over to the knotted brush. What I found is that the courser brush with a light touch seamed to work better than the lighter one. The light touch allows the brush to whisk away the old glue and foam while a more pressure only seems to melt the glue. I think it would be helpful if I had a slower grinder or could slow it down. Mine is a single speed at 11,000 rpm. By the time I finished the Port side, both brushes were pretty gummed up with glue. Before I tackle the Starboard side, I think I'll head back to the store and pick up another set of brushes. Once I've rough brushed the whole boat I'll go back and do some sanding and hand work.

So here's my lessons learned so far:
1. An angle sander with wire brush attachments really works
2. Use a course brush with a light touch.
3. Clean up as you go. I let the glue accumulate thinking I would do one cleaning at the end. Not a good idea. Anyplace where I stepped, sat or leaned on the glue caused it to stick to either me or the boat.

I'll post additional updates as I proceed.

[stxray]

All Done and ready for painting! Or at least as much as I'm going to do. Here's a shot of it.

2016-10-10 13.15.14.jpg

It ain't perfect but it will have to do.

Can I tell ya, removing the headliner and prepping the hull for painting is a b*&#h!.

In the end, here's what I did. I found a knotted wire brush on a 4.5" angle grinder was the best for removing the foam residue and thick glue.

A tyvek suit with hood & booties and a respirator are a real necessity. Even wearing that, I still got contaminated with fiberglass. Oh well, another set of clothes to throw away I don't know how the people fighting the Ebola virus did it. If I was there, I'd surely be dead.

After the wire brushing, I moved on to a 40 grit, flap sander on the grinder. That's when stepped back and said, "Well, that's good enough!"

Now the entire boat (along with my clothes as mentioned above) glistened with the fine sparkle of fiberglass. So, with everything removed, I rinsed the entire forward cabin with my pressure washer, pumped out the bilge and will paint once everything has had a chance to thoroughly dry.

Again, thanks to JT & Kerry. Your suggestions really helped.

[kerrye]

Good job. One reason I went with hand tools is that I didn't want fiberglass flying everywhere. In college we used to rub fiberglass insulation onto people's bedsheets as a trick and I didn't want that experience again. The primer I listed earlier is really good stuff. I learned of it on a net forum from a professional interior boat painter. I could only find it on Amazon, not locally.

[JT48348]

Great job! I feel your pain. It's a messy job but you will reap the benefits of your hardwork.

[stxray]

In college we used to rub fiberglass insulation onto people's bedsheets as a trick...

Oh my, that adds new meaning to trick or treat, lol.

[stxray]

Here's a question...

Is the water that collects in the forward cabin bilge suppose to drain into the center bilge?

On my boat (I assume it's original) I have a whale hand pump in the starboard locker that connects to a gate valve. That valve diverts the pumping from either the forward cabin bilge or the center bilge but, I don't see a pathway for the water to gravity feed to the center bilge. Am I missing something?