Albin 25 vs 27FC

[Hobbit]

I am the proud owner of a Albin 25, and when I say proud, I mean it.

Having owned many power and sailboats over 40 years (several Tiaras, Slickcraft, S2, C&C, Irwin, and others) I love my Albin 25.

I am considering an Albin 27FC based on my experience with my 25. We have 3 beautiful grandkids that want to cruise with us and the 25 is great for 2, ok for 3, but a sardine can for more.

We appreciate the ability to pull our 25 in the winter and save the slip expense as well as make it easy and fun to do projects on so the 27 is probably our max size.

My concern is that the 27FC may not live up to the reputation that our 25 has established for ruggedness, simplicity, and cool.

Is this big sister (brother) going to be a disappointment after the 25?

[WillieC]

Hobbit, this is Rick, aka WillieC. Your neighbor on the Canal. There is a ton of stuff written about the various 27 models here, I think even some buyer's guides listing all the issues that come with boat. So much that to my thinking I might consider (stand by for blasphemy) another marque. Supposing i live long enough to outgrow the 25, we keep looking out for another manufacturer.

Barring that, I think it is Beta Don who suggests finding the 27 that somebody has already spent all the time and money and attention to correcting what was missed in the manufacture and possible neglect of previous owners. Only a fraction of all that dough spent will show in the sale price, but you need to know what you are looking at. Take your time reading everything you can and good luck. Now I understand your comment to an earlier poster looking for a 25. What a great boat with a great history. I may have to unload mine and buy yours!

[JT48348]

I'm not sure I understand the original question.

First, you say you want to cruise with 5 bodies, but you want no more than 27 feet for towing. The 25 is too small so maybe 2 feet more will be enough room?

Second the Albin 25/Albin 27 are unique in that they are $20k, trailerable, fuel efficient, with a standing head, and provide aft cabin accommodation. There simply aren't other options for boats that gave the same features. You don't have much choice if that's your criteria.

[Hobbit]

I apologize. I could have been much more brief and clear.

Is the 27FC as tough and impressive as the 25? I don't want to look back and kick myself.

[Hobbit]

I apologize. I could have been much more brief and clear.

Is the 27FC as tough and impressive as the 25? I don't want to look back and kick myself.

[DesertAlbin736]

Rick mentioned you & Hobbit when we were discussing dinghy davits & the lifting crane & porta boat that Hira had when "Hobbit" was "Shatoosh & Pashmina". Sorry, can't help you out with your dilemma. I'll leave that to others with A27 experience. That said there are more 27s than 25s around and they stayed in production longer, thus newer ones are out there since most 25s are early to mid 1970s vintage. I half kid that we should trade our big house here in Arizona for a small patio home for the winters & buy a 36 foot trawler to live aboard full time in Bellingham, Anacortes, Poulsbro, or even Blaine during the summer. We have the lake here, but we've long since outgrown it.

I can sympathize about the grandkids, but at the same time am a bit envious. We have 8 older grandkids & 2 great grand kids, but they're all so busy with school and work that we're lucky to get any time with them at all, let alone overnight cruises on the boat. Not to mention they all live, work, and/or study on the East side of the sprawling Phoenix metro area, miles away from where we are on the Northwest side. But we're happy they're on track to get good educations. Of those 8, one is pursuing a doctorate, another is working on her masters degree, another is a junior in college, and one is still in high school. All the rest, ages 19 to 31 are working part or full time. We had the two 6 & 7 year old great grandsons out for a day on the lake last spring before our NW trip & were going to stay overnight, but they were bouncing off the walls so much ( they really are good boys, just 'energetic') that we came back in and left it at a day trip only. So we're good with day trips on the lake during cooler months, & brings back memories of when I was a kid growong up in NJ & would go out with my dad on his 25 foot clam boat on Barnegat Bay.

One thing you woud miss going from a 25 to the 27 is that handy chart table shelf at the helm, which the 27 doesn't have.

[JT48348]

Tough and impressive:

To me the A25 is a typical 70s constructed boat. This means more fiberglass, probably a simpler finish. More utilitarian and swanky 70s in appearance. That being said I don't Know I would equate an A25 with a bullet proof offshore classic plastic sailboat like an Alberg, Pearson, Bristol, or Rhodes design.

The A27 appears as a typical 1980s constructed boat. It is not as robust. It was built on a budget. Bear in mind the complaints you read about re A27 construction are done through the lens of 30+ year old boats that were not necessarily cared for properly. A25s have similar issues except where the construction methods were different.

To me the A27 construction is not the same as an A25. That's not a bad thing, they are different boats from different times constructed for different purposes. To me, The finish of a A27 may appear a little better than a A25. Some space is likely more usable and practical.

I don't know that you would notice the difference in construction so much as the finish on a well kept boat. I think re finish: you would lean in favor of an A27, but I'm still not sure what you're asking about.

I think if you got to a early 90s boat you might even be in another category entirely.

I'll add one more thing. I don't know how ur A25 is laid out. Do you stick your head through an open hatch when you want to drive and stretch ur aching back? On the A27 you have standing headroom. Period. That alone might be reason to size up as I can't imagine driving "tank-style". Not for me


PS-You've also got opening ports in the pilothouse and all cabins in the A27. More tankage. More headroom.

[JT48348]

I found these in my personal notes I made a while back.

Albin Comparisons:

A25.........................A27
LOA. 25'0"................26'9"
LWL. 22'2"................24'4"
Weight. 4000.............6500
Height. 9'....................11'
Beam. 8'6".................9'8"
Draft. 2'4".................2'6"


Mast position
11/25=44%. A25 11ft from bow
11.75/26.75=44% A27 11'9" from bow

[Hobbit]

Thank you for the replies. Although my post was not terribly specific, the responses that I am getting are the type of comments that I was seeking.

Everything in boating or in life is a compromise. While you may gain some benefits for one decision you will loose some also.

Your notes reminded me that some of the 27FC's have a mast and sail.

As a dual boater (I have about 60 / 40 sail power experience) I have on more than one occasion used sails to limp into a port or anchorage with engine issues.

Does any one have any input on the effectiveness of the 27FC mast and sail on stability under power, motor sailing, or navigation (movement) in an emergency as sole source of thrust?

TIA

[Hobbit]

" There is a ton of stuff written about the various 27 models here, I think even some buyer's guides listing all the issues that come with boat. So much that to my thinking I might consider (stand by for blasphemy) another marque. "

Rick,

Your point is well taken. We actually have been eyeing all options including both pocket trawlers and trawlers.

Funds and practicality are steering us toward a trailerable or as one member put it "moveable" vessel. The extensive work that I performed on Hobbit over the winter would never have been possible if I couldn't have had her at the house. Sitting on the hard in the PNW can be expensive. Anacortes boatyards are about as close as I can find for survivable yard storage rates and that would take all the fun out of working on some of the projects. I would love to have a 30' or larger, but in my situation, I am tied to either well or storage expense every single day that you own a boat.

That places me in the pocket cruiser class.

I have looked at others.... Willard, C-Dory, Allweather, etc, but everything is a compromise on space, privacy (aft cabin for the kids), weight, simplicity (straight drive, no V drive, outdrive, or outboard) and have narrowed my options to direct drive. Simple, efficient drive train. That narrowed the field.

I could continue with the selection narrowing, but you get the Idea. A vessel with trailer less that 9800 pounds (my towing capacity), with a direct drive, that is fuel efficient (greater than 5 miles to the gallon), that is reasonably tough if unexpected weather comes up. Oh... and is affordable. Big one there.




I had read Beta Dons comments on finding one that someone just upgraded and cared for. GREAT POINT! Two things that I never seem to be the best at are finding those vessels and buy high sell low (whether boats or stocks). If there are some known vessels for sale I would be delighted to review them.

His point is well taken and that is why my ancillary criteria include autopilot and radar. A couple of slogs from the San Juans back to Pleasant Harbor has demonstrated the benefit of both. (I have radar but no AP). Installation of new systems can dramatically increase your investment.

Another point is made by considering how many A25's there are available on the market at any given time. Search the whole internet and you MAY find one or two turn key A25's. There are A FEW that need to be re-engined, and a few more that are hulls waiting for everything. Sale price for turn key boats is the highest with over all investment the lowest. By the time you re-engine, or rebuild an A25 you are going to exceed the cost of a turn key vessel.

The point being here is that a clean A25 is inexpensive to own and operate compared to 95% of all your other choices plus they are in demand so they are a somewhat more liquid asset. (pun intended)

From this perspective the A25 is almost my gold standard in an idea vessel except I need more room. The 27FC was designed to fill this niche but my question is does it? So many times "improvements" have killed a classic. Poorer glass, blistering, unexpected design flaws. The list can be quite extensive.

I am slowly with the help of the posters here quantifying the impressions of the A25 to the 27FC.

Weaker deck to hull mating, leaking portlights, core softening are all criteria that I need to investigate further and I appreciate those insights.

[Hobbit]

[quote="DesertAlbin736"]Rick mentioned you & Hobbit when we were discussing dinghy davits & the lifting crane & porta boat that Hira had when "Hobbit" was "Shatoosh & Pashmina".

For the benefit of other A25 owners, The lifting crane was great but I couldn't figure an easy way to get the dingy upside down on top after lifting it. We elected to remove the crane and put a "rub rail" with rubber padding at the aft side of the hard top. I can easily slide our 8' Porta Boat to the stern, let the dingy transom sit on the swim platform, and then push the dinghy bow up and over the stern dropping the bow of it into the water. If you are having a problem picturing it, it is a backward flip for the porta boat with the swim platform being the pivot point.

If I could figure how to insert a picture here I would!

We pretty much spend our retired time building the bond and creating memories with the kids. We figure we have about an 8 year window before friends, sports, and life demand their time. You have to grab that ring while you can. It doesn't last. There isn't much better a memory than digging Geoducks with the Hobbit laying beached at low tide with your grandkid waist deep in a clam hole while the other one is running around poking at Horseneck snorkels to get them to squirt.

[JT48348]

To clarify: the A27 did not come from the factory with a mast or sail rig. It was not designed to be a motorsailer. Any sail rigs have been added post-production by owners.

There is only one A27 I know of with a mast and that's the one in Wisconsin. It has an aft mast in the cockpit in a classic workboat configuration.

I am installing a mast on my A27 and it's an unproven concept. My install is a forward deck configuration. Thus my personal notes gave some measurements I made.

The A27 was not designed as a motorsailer.

[JT48348]

I am slowly with the help of the posters here quantifying the impressions of the A25 to the 27FC.

Weaker deck to hull mating, leaking portlights, core softening are all criteria that I need to investigate further and I appreciate those insights.

You do realize that any issues of hull deck joint, leaking portlights, core softening, etc are matters of age, not necessarily of the boat design? Issues that affect one owner are not common to all owners, and can't even be tracked to a particular run or year variation. If your criteria is what you stated, I would argue there is no other boat that has the characteristics you seek. You are stuck with a boat made 30 years ago in a relatively limited run. I wouldn't shy away from owning one.

You can argue that there were poor decisions made in some of the building processes only in so far as they didn't last 30+ years, and they were common for the time period. But this is different than arguing a design is flawed. And it doesn't take into consideration history which unfortunately brought us the oil crisis and more expensive petroleum. You also can't argue an A25 to an A27 because they were made by different boat yards, different builders. They share a similarity of design linked by the USA importer, Fred Petersen. They have no other common roots. A25s were built in Sweden in the 1970s. A27s were built from 1983-1990 in various yards in the american north east. The quality at different stages varied and was contrained by the sales price for the time period.

I'm surprised I have to say this, but as the author of the A27 buyers guide, these boat issues are common to many boats of 30-40 years age. The buyers guide is not a critique of the A27, and it shouldn't be used as such.The purpose of the guide is to point buyers in the direction of key issues that have affected common boats over decades. Its a guide of what to look out for in a specific boat that was made 30+ years ago during the 1980s. Its a negotiating tool.

It goes without saying: If I crawled through an A25 there is no telling what I would find to put in an A25 Buyers Guide- unique to the 1970's: substandard 70's electrical, no pan liner, leaking window gaskets,etc.

[DesertAlbin736]

I'll add one more thing. I don't know how ur A25 is laid out. Do you stick your head through an open hatch when you want to drive and stretch ur aching back? On the A27 you have standing headroom. Period. That alone might be reason to size up as I can't imagine driving "tank-style". Not for me

90% of the time I drive sitting down at the driver's seat. Sometimes it's fun to stand up and stick my head out of the hatch for a little more air. The other day when we had the boat out on what for Arizona in September was a mild day (mid to upper 80s), with all hatches & side curtains open and fans going it was 87 degrees in the cockpit (I have a digital thermometer that tells temp in the cockpit & main cabin). My one criticism of the stock A25 bench drivers seat is that it's not very comfortable for long periods at the wheel, so it's nice to able to stretch once in awhile. Also it's handy for docking since the side windows don't open and it's hard to talk to the 'deck hand' without that opening hatch. Only the deck under the drivers seat next to the engine boxed is raised by about a foot to be flush with the top of the engine box. The rest the cockpit has 6 ft 2 inch headroom.

Here's the main cabin interior on the A25. The drop in table panel & cushion turns the settees into a big V berth with 4 inch foam cushions for sleeping. I like that better then the dinette type. Click to zoom in on this photo & you can see that behind the pillows up in the bow is our fitted sheets and sleeping bag rolled up and our pillows tucked under the back rests and up against the side of the hull. Also our boat came with a shelf under the forward hatch, probably not original but added by some previous owner way back when. The fill in cushion is tucked under that and pushed partway into the forepeak. This is how our cabin looks during the day (pay no attention to the dirty dishes in the sink). At night we put the center cushion in and roll out the sheets & sleeping bag and we've got a nice comfy bed.

As far as being "tank style", I made the cockpit canvas in such a way that it can be screened in sides and back for UV & bug protection & still have ventilation, or the sides rolled up completely, or removable vinyl windows velcroed in on cold and/or wet days, or outer flaps closed & window covers installed for complete privacy, or the whole enclosure unsnapped and tipped forward as originally intended to open up the cockpit.

[DesertAlbin736]

For the benefit of other A25 owners, The lifting crane was great but I couldn't figure an easy way to get the dingy upside down on top after lifting it. We elected to remove the crane and put a "rub rail" with rubber padding at the aft side of the hard top. I can easily slide our 8' Porta Boat to the stern, let the dingy transom sit on the swim platform, and then push the dinghy bow up and over the stern dropping the bow of it into the water. If you are having a problem picturing it, it is a backward flip for the porta boat with the swim platform being the pivot point.

We had a near disastrous loss of our Boatex 8 dinghy that was wrecked when a rogue wave ripped it off our swim platform mounted Weaver snap davits off Nelson Island in Malaspina Strait. So on our way back from Bellingham I bought a new Nisqually 8 hard dink from Gig Harbor Boat Works. I have a set of custom lifting davits on order from Garhauer that are due to be shipped on Monday. It'll add to our LOA, but we can carry it right side up lifted to stern rail level. I'm installing hole-thru-the-middle fenders on each side of the dinghy to make a "MacGyver" version of a RID tube because the Nisqually is quite tippy. Since our boat has a modified version of the stock canvas enclosure and opening hatches above the wheel house your system isn't practical on our boat.

I recently bought a used Thompson Mini Walker sewing machine (Sailrite machines are improved clones of the Mini Walker) off Craiglist that I can use to make a Sunbrella cover for the dinghy that will have zippered openings for the lifting slings so the dink can be kept right side up on the davits.

The idea is to have something classy like this.

Macintosh40.jpg

Our old Boatex 8 davit arrangement. Handy, but not good in rough seas. If that dock looks familiar, it's the Gate 9 guest dock at Squalicum Harbor in Bellingham.