HB 250 Transmission bearing

[Dandy]

I purchased Maxsail's Albin 27 with the seized transmission. (January post from Mazsail.) Long story short; the Nissan LD28 was seized also. Maxsail said his friend had turned it by hand. A friend of mine and I removed the injectors, sprayed WD40 in each of the cylinders, waited an hour or so and then were able too turn the engine a small amount by hand. After working it a bit we turned the starter and the engine turned fine. We haven't been able to start it yet, but is seems to turn as it should.

Then we turned to the transmission that Maxsail had already removed. We took it apart and found; 1) it contained no oil (source of problem) and 2.) one of the bearings was shot. In the photos below I show the transmission open and the bad bearing. We need a new bearing and need to know if the scaring on the shaft is critical or not. Does anyone know where we can get this bearing? It is a Hurth, we think the HB250 transmission.

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[sail149]

Hi
The bearing surface on the shaft should be a seperate piece.it would be unusual for it to be part of the shaft.
You will need to get it off its damaged way to much to use
It should be really smooth and shinny .
You may have to heat it , cherry red, to get off or worse case grind it until you cut all the way thru but do not hit the shaft or gear!
If Hurth do not have the bearing , and they would be expensive you can usually buy them at a bearing supply house.
Local to me in PA is. http://www.bds-usa.net/bearings
You might finds a number on the edge of the bearing race like 67884
Here it this one , it's big, I was sourcing it today !
http://www.amazon.com/Timken-Tapered-St ... B007A7M36U

If you can't find the number , measure the shaft dia and the outside of the loose race and the length and go to a supply house and have them look it up. If you very lucky it will be a standard bearing , might only take a couple of days to get in. You should probably check the other bearings too.
Are there any seals to keep the oil in?
They will need replacing too, they are usually rubber "lip" seals with a metal casing, often coated in rubber.
The bearing is similiar to what you find in trailer bearings.

Good luck , you did good. Getting the engine broke it should be ok if you have lead a good life!
Warren

[Dandy]

Thanks a lot Warren. Big help. We took a second look at the bearing surface and then at the manual we found on line and it looks like it is supposed to be a part of the bearing assembly. Getting it off will be a chore.

Thanks for the links and we found a bearing supply house here in Fort Myers we are going to check out.

[sail149]

Great! Looks like all the bearings might be the same, might be a good time to replace them all.
I'm suprised I can see a seal, but I've never seen inside a marine Trans. Please post more picturers.!
The make bearing or gear pullers that might help you.
W

[Beta Don]

If it's been run very long with low or no oil in it (and the condition of that bearing suggests this might be the case) the bad bearing might be the least of your problems

But the good news is, it's a Hurth and it can be rebuilt from scratch by a qualified rebuilder

Don

[kerrye]

If it were me, I'd heat up the bearing race with a propane or MAPP torch and pack dry ice around the main shaft to see if I could separate them that way.

[Dandy]

We found the bearing locally at Miller Bearings, Inc (no webpage I can find) on Metro Parkway in Fort Myers, FL - $35.00 as opposed to close to 100 on-line at marine sites. I have no tools capable of properly getting that bearing on, so will look for someone to put it all back together. One thing that we didn't take proper note of was the placement of the shims. They were on the end of the bearing shaft - maybe some on each end, we didn't take note properly so I am concerned that even if I could get the bearing on I would know how to shim the shaft to its best location. The shims are not the same thickness either, making it an impossible job for me at this point.

I have a couple more pictures Warren. Best I can do.

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[sail149]

Don is I'm sure right that it could be rebuilt by a Hurth specialist , but you might have good luck at a small, not a chain, transmission shop. Or similiar. The bearing guys might have a suggestion.
W

[marinegears]

Dandy, I'm not sure how far you have gotten with your repair but I would be concerned with the amount of damage/wear on the gear teeth. In the last photo of you first post you are showing a close up of the bearing cone but you can also see the front gear of the input shaft. It might be worth a second opinion before you put to much money into this transmission. There is a good marine transmission shop in Ft. Lauderdale called Transmission Marine Inc. 954-467-1540. They can rebuild, supply parts or quote you on new.

[Dandy]

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I ended up buying a new transmission. I consulted the owner and mechanics at Owl Creek Marina in Fort Myers and they acknowledged that Transmission Marine is a good source who they in fact use from time to time. The owner, however, referred me to Bob Mac of Southwest Motorsports Corp in Bradenton. Bob worked for Hurth or the company who bought Hurth. Anyway he ultimately - after looking over my old transmission for a week or so - advised buying a new transmission. $2320.63 taxes etc. out the door.

Now I have bolted the transmission to the engine.

When the boat was towed to my home from the PO's home, the transmission was out and the sfhat was not properly secured. The prop and shaft very quickly began spinning and moving aft. It was stopped by the bulkhead aft of the engine and/or the rudder post - likely the latter. The flange on the end of the shaft that bolts to the transmission was embedded in the bulkhead aft of the engine. I had a diver push the shaft in (he noted the prop and shaft butted against the rudder post but no damage to the rudder post or rudder.) Now I have a hole in the bulkhead aft of the engine that obviously contained something but I do not know what. See the pictures below. If anyone can help with this I will appreciate it. I will be connecting the shaft to the transmission next step.

[sail149]

Confused by photo.
Not seeing extra hole?
W

[Dandy]

Hi Warren, thanks. The hole that the shaft is coming through is about 3 inches in diameter. Is there something that is supposed to stabilize the shaft in that opening or is it just like that?

[JT48348]

Perhaps a shaft flange bearing goes there. If you don't already have one I would think so. If you have one you don't need two.

Your bilge bulkhead looks close to the transmission so hard to tell what's going on with that hole. See this thread for photos:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=8573&hilit=Shaft+flange

[tego]

Dandy, What year is your boat? Mine is an '87 with the 1 1/2" drive shaft and there's no support bearing between the tranny and the stuffing box. Some of the earlier units with a smaller diameter shaft have a support bearing there but I see no sign of one in your picture. Ben

[Dandy]

Tego,

I have a 1986 Albin. The shaft is inch-and-a-quarter and has the flange bearing on the bulkhead in the aft cabin.

JT

The link you provided was extremely helpful. I had reviewed that thread before but not since I installed the new transmission. That Albin 27 in the thread is the one I now own. Looking at your photos, it would seem that when Maxsail took the four bolts holding the flange bearing to the aft bulkhead the backing plate with nuts attached would have dropped down onto the shaft so that finding the nuts (which I have not been able to do) blindly from the aft cabin side alone, will be impossible unless I have access to that plate - which you are able to do with the fuel tank out. That will be another problem beyond the issue I originally asked about; the hole in the bulkhead aft of the transmission. I was also wondering if there is some sort of flange bearing that goes there but there is no evidence of anything being bolted into that hole.

Bottom line is: if the flange bearing on the aft cabin bulkhead is the only stabilizing item between the cutlass bearing and the transmission - no additional piece on the bulkhead aft of the transmission - then I will ficus on getting the flange bearing in aft cabin re-connected; which should push the flange connection to the transmission all the way forward to the transmission - and reconnect the shaft to the transmission. Alignment is critical. Can I assume that the flange bearing will align the shaft to the transmission properly?

As always, I really appreciate the responses form this forum. What a great resource!