hull deck joint design 27FC

[changer]

Read the threads about the hull deck joint design and has helped a lot. Have a few leaks and the PO had the rub rail off and installed new rivets with 5200 as needed. Given this state of my 'repair" ... it seems logical to look at the seal between deck and the top inside edge of the rub rail... perhaps caulk its length? or also do the bottom hull rub rail interface. My leaks are coming with rain.

Any advice will make me drier I'm sure !!

thanks, doug
changer

[JT48348]

Why do you think the rub rail or hull/deck joint is leaking?

Before I would assume the hull/ deck joint is the culprit I would wonder about the deck fittings etc. Especially since the PO already did the deck joint.

This weekend I pressure washed my boat in preparation for paint and sprayed extensively along the rub rail. I could detect no leaks along the rub rail. My rubrail is original and still in good shape.

But knowing what I know about what lies beneath the headliner I would look there first.

[11kolive]

JT48348,

would you elaborate about what you know is beneath the headliner please? I have wondered about that and see photos of boats for sale that have stained headliners that makes me question what and why.

[JT48348]

I have several postings with photos showing exactly what's under the headliner depending on the part of the boat. You should also check out the A27 Buyers Guide in the documents section which spells out the trouble spots and how to identify water leaks behind the headliner.

Basically the headliner in the A27 covers all underside fastners on all deck fittings. Which means every bit and bolt put through the deck is covered and hidden by the headliner. If you have exposed hardware most likely that item is installed post production by a previous owner.

The headliner was foam backed or laid over foam and stapled to wood edges at the extreme corners and underside elbows of the deck.

Fittings from the factory were often not bedded properly or the sealant has failed from age. In the case of the bow and stern pulpits the fasteners were glassed over.

Basically on an original A27 you are looking at leaks from every deck fitting. And separate, the usual leaks as listed in the Buyers Guide for the pilothouse Windows, fore and aft cabin Windows, and the pilothouse attachment to the deck.

Before I worked on a toe rail, assuming no obvious signs of damage, I would fix the other leaks first.

[WillieC]

Boy I sure like my A25. I have followed JT's posts and other links about the leaky tiki problems. Yikes! But like everything else, dig into it, read all you can, learn from everybody else's failures, then buy the boat where everything has been fixed and well documented and become a lover of somebody else's labor! Sort of a paraphrase of BetaDon's boat buying synopsis.

Read Don's comments, 4th post:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9516

Sound advice. Now invent a time machine.

[11kolive]

Thank you for more clarification, I have read the Buyers Guide and learned a lot! My old A25 did not have the same leak issues at all so I was very interested in the recent dialogue about replacing the headliners. Very appreciated!

[changer]

Thanks for suggestion to focus on the deck hardware... I have avoided looking from below as the PO indicated he rebel them and put in a new liner..? I suspect you're correct, so on to the deck hardware bedding.

thank you.
doug

[JT48348]

The liner is a complicated pattern and robustly installed feature. It took a lot to get mine out. Some parts are assembled during production which makes it even harder to remove.

Therefore I would be very interested to see how someone "installed a new headliner". I would be suspicious ...

[changer]

The PO used a flexible white plastic i/8" board, screw to glued in stringers... 10 years still intact... not my choice but it is what it is at this point. BTW, no visible water leaks where the board is....??

[JT48348]

That's sounds similar to the panel system I'm thinking of installing. Can you post some pictures of what you have?

Why do you think you have a leak from the toe rail? What are you seeing that indicates that?

[changer]

Sure will send some pics, but away from the boat for a few weeks. Wish I had some with me.

I did a 'temp' caulk on all stanchions and cleats...stopped two out of four leaks. One I know is a port light...the other runs down the STBD forward ceiling of the hull outward of the anchor locker. I know I have some delamination around the cleats on the foredeck.

thanks

[changer]

Toe rail?... water runs down the channel between the top of the rub rail and molded deck toe rail...disappears under the rub rail. Does the deck extend over a top edge of the hull edge... what design is the joint? i'm thinking can access the joint?
Any input will be helpful...

[Beta Don]

There is a raised lip at the outer edge of the deck - This is the toe rail. The toe rail has an opening at the lowest point of the deck, a few feet from the stern to allow the water on the deck to run over the side. This water runs onto the rub rail

The rub rail is a push on 'U' channel which covers the hull/deck joint. The deck has about a 3/4 inch lip or 'flange' which sits on a matching 3/4 lip on the hull. The hull/deck 'joint' is a series of pop rivets through the top lip and the bottom lip spaced about 6 or 8 inches apart. The rub rail pushes over the joint and the pop rivets are actually what holds the rub rail on

Some owners report some sort of sealant which was applied between the flanges before they were riveted together - You can see it squeezed out at various points where the joint is visible inside the boat. Other owners report no sealant of any kind there. My boat didn't have any

When the water runs down off the deck, it runs into the channel between the rub rail and the vertical edge of the deck, below the toe rail. Once in that channel, it is free to flow under the rub rail and onto the hull/deck joint. If that joint isn't well sealed, it can (and will) easily run into the boat

Could you try some sealant of some sort put in the bottom of the rub rail groove before you put the rail back on the boat to get a seal?? You could, though it would make putting the rub rail back on much harder - You would likely have to beat it on with a rubber mallet to get it fully on, which would squeeze out the excess sealant. It would also make it much more difficult to get the rub rail back off at some point in the future - Whatever you do, don't use something like 5200 or you would never get it back off should the need arise

Good luck, and report back on how well whatever you try works out

Don

[JT48348]

I'm not hearing anything that indicates you have a leak at the hull deck joint. What I'm hearing is you have leaks at stanchion bases, deck fittings and at least one porthole. You need to fix those first before you pull off a rubrail and go to town.

[changer]

Thanks all for the guidance... stay tuned....might take me awhile.

best