advice for a potential Albin 48 purchaser

[ebwalk03@yahoo.com]

Greetings, I need the voices of reason to speak up. I visited a 1984 Albin 48' North Sea cutter yesterday (Saltyachts.com) and kinda fell in love with it. Normally, falling in love with a big expensive boat ($149K) isn't a problem because my wife gives me a tolerant smile and we move on. On this day, however, she did not say 'no'! Here are my questions:
-Just how expensive is it to own a 48' boat? (never owned anything bigger than a 24' go-fast boat)
-Does anyone know this boat or this year? (I saw scary thoughts posted last year about a 1987 48' that is still for sale now for just $79K. I'm not considering that boat)
-Is it really crazy to go this big for a first trawler? (we love the roominess of it and the layout)

I hope we will go up or down the coast from Rock Hall, MD once a year, but it will be mostly a short-hop, weekender vessel.

Thanks for answering a newbie's questions!

Bob

[Jeremyvmd]

Im gonna give you my thoughts within the quote...however please don't take anything I say tht wrong way. Im trying to give my honest opinion. I love the 48nsc. It's a great boat and will take anything you can handle and probibly more, has a massive living area, and all the comforts of home.

Greetings, I need the voices of reason to speak up. I visited a 1984 Albin 48' North Sea cutter yesterday (Saltyachts.com) and kinda fell in love with it. Normally, falling in love with a big expensive boat ($149K) isn't a problem because my wife gives me a tolerant smile and we move on. On this day, however, she did not say 'no'! Here are my questions:
-Just how expensive is it to own a 48' boat? (never owned anything bigger than a 24' go-fast boat)
that really is up to you, how much of the work would you be able to do yourself vs shop out to a mechanic/etc? If your handy you can save yourself a bit of money, but nothing is cheap on a boat. I will tell you I am doing a new motor, fuel tank/system, allhoses etc and even the tag for that is pricey. And the bigger you go the bigger the hit. Slips are commensurately more expensive as is hauling and blocking. My dad recently got a 32+2 and his haul fees are double mine.


-Does anyone know this boat or this year? (I saw scary thoughts posted last year about a 1987 48' that is still for sale now for just $79K. I'm not considering that boat)
as long as you get a GOOD survey and feel comfortable with it, it shouldn't be a proble. A well taken care of boat can last forever, but it might have to get reworked a few times in its life



-Is it really crazy to go this big for a first trawler? (we love the roominess of it and the layout)
have you ever driven a boat that large? There is a big difference between a 26ft go fast and even a 28 tournament express, the difference between that and a big trawler is night and day. Can it be done? Yes, but there will be a learning curve and you have to be willing to deal with it. I will say it's quite a bit of overkill for a weekender...but that's just my opinion.


I hope we will go up or down the coast from Rock Hall, MD once a year, but it will be mostly a short-hop, weekender vessel.

Thanks for answering a newbie's questions!

Bob

[Mark Deeser]

Sometimes ya just gotta throw your hat in the ring. Win or lose it will be an adventur that you will be able to discuss over beers at the marina for years.

[tbnolin]

Mark is right on with "an adventure"! We went from a 24' pocket cruiser to the 40 NSC and loved it. When standing on the fly bridge for the first time, behind the helm....it looked massive! We bought the boat and used it as our camp on the water for a couple summers and then quit our jobs and went south. 8 weeks of cruising down to Florida from just below Lake Champlain.
Is it more expensive then the 24er'? No doubt....Is there more room? No doubt. Is it more comfortable....that's right...no doubt! You need to weigh out what you and your better half want to do.
My wife and I could handle the 40 when traveling....I was behind the wheel and Brenda took care of all the lines and fenders. She was one heck of a first mate!

Good luck!
Tom

[ebwalk03@yahoo.com]

Thanks all for the replies. I am taking it all to heart--both the "overkill" and the "go for it" perspectives as well as the learning curve to drive this boat. I like learning and I don't mind getting good instruction and practice. Looking into some actual costs now for insurance and slip fees and hauling and maintenance. I'll share what I find. Also looking at other size Albins to round out the picture.

[DougSea]

The Admiral's on board and you haven't purchased yet?!?

IF you are both into the boat lifestyle - it can be awesome to move up to a big boat. We recently moved our 35 about 60 miles away from our home and use it as a weekend house. We absolutely love it.

Given the large "upsize" you're looking at I'd second some of the comments above - do you do your own work? Very rewarding AND saves a LOT of money! Probably one of the bigger factors to look at.

Also, if you buy any large boat, hire a good Captain for a weekend of instruction. Not a buddy with a bigger boat, but someone who actually understands what it takes to teach someone new to the size and who will let you take things at your own speed. Your wife should participate in the lessons as she'll be your 1st Mate and will need to handle lines and fenders. You're getting way too big to be able to singlehand except for the calmest of days. Especially while you're still learning.

Best of luck!!

[tbnolin]

I haven't looked at the 48, but I,m assuming it has twins. Something I had no interest in when looking to "upgrade". But after finding the 40 and the purchase price for a boat that was never registered , we went for it. There's nothing like docking and turning on a dime with twins. I had one engine quit on us one time and we were able to limp back with the one engine (human error...changed out filters and forgot to turn the fuel back on the one engine! Not one of my better moments but an easy fix!).

I agree....when the admiral likes it, get it!!!

Keep us posted. Would love to hear what you do.

[Nancy]

Also, if you buy any large boat, hire a good Captain for a weekend of instruction. Not a buddy with a bigger boat, but someone who actually understands what it takes to teach someone new to the size and who will let you take things at your own speed. Your wife should participate in the lessons as she'll be your 1st Mate and will need to handle lines and fenders. You're getting way too big to be able to singlehand except for the calmest of days. Especially while you're still learning.

Ahem! Both owners should be skilled at operating the boat if only for safety reasons.

[WillieC]

Ouch, Nancy! And we have already learned this lesson, have we not, boys?

[ebwalk03@yahoo.com]

I always make sure my wife knows how to turn around and come back for me should I fall off...hopefully she would choose to do that!

[drbob]

We drove our 49' DeFever CPMY around the www.greatloop.org over a three year period. It had a walk in engine room with twin Perkins Sabre naturally aspirated diesels with a deep prop protecting keel (which we drug through the sand a lot in the Bahamas).

Once you learn to follow your elbows to twist and turn the boat, you'll have a real hard time going back to a single. The 48 NSC has no keel, which means you can also walk it sideways using helm over, one forward and one reverse. Neat way to parallel park at the dock.

Most people like two sources of propulsion (one engine, one sail; one engine, one get home; one engine, one big outboard mounted on the swim platform for the get home; one engine, one dinghy that can be used as a pusher; twin engines with separate fuel suppliers, yea!)

On a big boat, you want to have a nav station facing forward. Two sets of eyes with binoculars is a must. The 48 NSC has the galley down. Make sure that in skinny waters, if you're driving from below that the person on the stool is braced when you run aground or they will take a spill over the top and into the galley.

BUT most importantly, you may have a difficult time getting insurance unless your boating resume shows you have experience with boats approaching this size and a vessel with a generator. Talk with the underwriters at BoatUS to find out what you'll need resume and survey wise to get insurance with them. They are the broker and will place your policy with one or more of the 30 plus companies they work with.

Recommend you take the safe boating course offered by the USCG Aux and the Power Squadron, take a week long vacation on a trawler with an instructor. If you don't have one now, start a "captain's log book." And document every trip you take on every boat you're on. You'll need to note time underway and time docked and where you traveled from and to.

Bob

[Nepidae]

Saw Bob's reply and I have 1 or 2 issues with it. Otherwise, good info.

In 2010 we purchased our Albin 43 sundeck and got BoatUS insurance. I was asked a couple of general questions and for a copy of the survey. If I remember correctly they put my policy in place for our trip from CT to PA as soon as they got the survey. They added a rider for ocean travel which was just for the delivery.

The one thing, as mentioned by Bob that our boat doesn't have is a generator; "BUT most importantly, you may have a difficult time getting insurance unless your boating resume shows you have experience with boats approaching this size and a vessel with a generator." I have since, without insurance company suggestion or requirement, added a generator, which in the winter I pick up and carry home for it's winter in the basement.

I have never heard of an insurance company requiring a generator on a boat. I got a quote to add one, last year, that was $10-15,000, which is why I carry mine home.

When I recently renewed with BoatUS they never asked if I had a generator. They asked some general questions but nothing about a generator.

I'm also not too sure about the resume, I never was required or asked for a resume, the closest to that was some general question, 'had I ever handled or owned a boat this size' was about as close as it came. I had never own a boat our size, which I told them, but had used friends boats and had chartered a boat close or about our size. Do NOT fabricate a 'resume' or your experience if asked. That would be grounds for loss of coverage if you should need it. Obviously, the insurance company wants to sell insurance but they also don't want to turn someone loose on a 40,000# boat with no experience, although I've read about some experiences that would make one wonder, how did that person get insurance.

Granted, things could be different today and his suggestion, "Talk with the underwriters at BoatUS" is correct. They will be very helpful, ask what they need. Keep in mind they want to sell insurance. I saved about $600 with my renewal since Mr. Buffett bought the company and since he also owns Geico. Not sure there are 30 companies behind them, buit reselling insurance happens all the time in that business.

Finally, also not sure of the documentation on where and when you went or 'time docked'. If you were going to go for a US Coast Guard Captains license (usually a '6 pack') you wouldn't need to document time docked. I had thought about a 6 pack and this would have included my time in the Navy many years before. It's nice to have a log book or Blog in todays world for reminders of the trip, I'd say take pictures and post them with the trip info and share it with your family, don't think BoatUS needs the link.

BTW, I would have thought that Art, as in Defever, would have had a better design than to allow one to be propelled into the galley upon running aground. Couldn't do that in my Albin.

[ebwalk03@yahoo.com]

Greetings, I wanted to post my final reply to this thread. Thank you all for the great advice and sharing of your experiences! Here are my conclusions:
-Mortgage--found a company that would provide a mortgage on this 1984 boat with 20% down and 4.12% over 20 years, no prepay penalty
-Insurance- I was asked questions about my sailing resume and from a local Rock Hall, MD broker got a replacement value of $150K for $1200 per year to cruise in the Chesapeake with a winter layup.
My full accounting of costs is attached to this post.

The biggest "Ah-Ha" moment occurred during private conversation with Charles from Nepidae.
I can't really predict the maintenance costs on the boat, just as I can't predict them on my house. Stuff will break, but I don't know which stuff that will be, nor will I really know what new things I "just can't live without". No matter how I work the numbers, it will be a big commitment of finances to have a boat of this size.

I haven't made a decision about big-boat ownership yet. I plan to go look at this boat again and take my time and if I proceed, enter eyes-wide-open.

Best wishes,
Bob

[drbob]

Alrighty then . . . After all the items on the survey are completed, you can estimate your annual maintenance and operating costs to be roughly 10% of purchase price.

Older boats may require an annual survey to maintain insurance.

Boat resume' . . . when they ask if you've operated a vessel in the size range you're going to buy, and you say "nope." Then the follow-up questions start to flow. Otherwise, you're good to go. The big boats really do handle differently and you can't expect the wife to jump off the boat onto the dock to hold you off. LOL.

The 48 NSC has the "galley down" design (as do many many boats) which could pose the problem. The DeFever was galley up and aft on the port side with a serving window to the sundeck.

Similar to the 40 NSC (and the proposed 43 NSC) is the Sabreline 43 Fast Trawler. The extra three feet enable them to put an almost queen centerline forward and a full queen walk-around in the aft stateroom. They also built a three stateroom model as well. The two stateroom Sabreline has the galley down whereas the three stateroom has the galley up. The Sabreline also has the all-weather hull design like the Albin TE and NSC series.

Time docked . . . To get your CG license you have to document hours on the water.

"OUPV INLAND (6 PAK) Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel within the US Coast Guard boundary lines.
"The minimum of 360 days on the water experience from age 16 years to present
"90 of those 360 days must be within the most recent 3 years
"Time on the water must be on vessels greater than 16 feet in length
The CG allows a 4 hour underway time (within a 24 hour period) to count as one day. To document this you note the time you leave the dock and the time you dock. Time tied to a dock doesn't count as time on the water.
To maintain the license, you need 360 on the water every five years or you have to take and pass a test.

And there are log and letter requirements if you don't own the vessel you're citing for as time on the water.
Best get the actual requirements and take a look to make sure you document what you need in the correct format.

Hope this helps and clarifies,

Bob