Removing the bow cleat

[Sunsetrider]

I need to reposition the bow cleat - the big one with the wooden dowel - to make room for the windlass. It was a simple task to remove the underside bolts, but the bracing plate and the cleat itself seem to be cemented in place. I could not even get a chisel under the edge.

I will be covering the windlass location with a piece of 1/2-inch StarBoard for extra strength, so not too concerned about marring the surface if need be. I imagine the plate and cleat are bonded by a permanent adhesive like 5200 or something. So I am considering taking the dremel to it with a cutting wheel. Unless someone has a better idea? If that doesn't do the trick I might have so just cut it right out leaving a hole right through the deck. Unsure how to get that dome either. ??

[Jay Knoll]

Try this stuff http://www.debondcorporation.com/produc ... 8683679619 score around the cleat's base and then apply the debond it will take awhile

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks Jay - I'll try to find some locally.

[JT48348]

If you think the fittings have been attached with 5200 I would try and heat the area and fitting with a heat gun. Be careful not to burn the deck. The heat will make the 5200 more flexible then you may be able to break the pieces free mechanically. It may take some patience and careful working.

What's the purpose of the Starboard?

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks JT, I'll try that. I'm also going to try a product called marine de-bonding.
The Starboard is to both add strength to hold the windlass since my deck is only 1 inch thick (I have decided to go with 1/4-inch Starboard instead of 1/2-inch) and the instructions say that 1 inch is the minimum required; and to cover the mess to be left when the cleat is removed. I think it will make a nice looking base for the windlass.

[JT48348]

A couple things to think about:

Starboard really cannot be glued. Sealant won't stick to it. 5200 won't bond to it so any sealant u use will be holding itself together as a gasket rather than a bonding adhesive/sealant.

Starboard at 1/4" is not particularly rigid. It bends with friction applied and enough lateral force. Starboard is not an appropriate backing plate material.

If you're looking for a material to raise a deck fitting off the deck and increase the thickness of the deck I would choose something else. My first choice would be coosa board coated with fiberglass resin. You might consider a G-10 fiberglass plate and you could get by with 3/16-1/4" thick glued to the deck.

You can get G-10 from McMaster Carr.

A poor mans solution is layers of Masonite peg board glued together with resin. I gave used this as a mastep with good results. Or alternately a thick piece of mahogany or teak as a wooden base.

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks for the heads up JT. I saw Starboard used like this in a youtube installation. I strongly prefer not to get involved in making a mess of my foredeck with fibreglass. Because that will be the result. So I am leaning heavily toward a nice piece of wood instead. Or I could go with nothing I suppose, assuming the windlass covers the bolt holes from the cleat. How would a piece of aluminum plate work as a subsurface brace?

[Beta Don]

For strength, I would go with a piece of wood on top - Teak if you don't want to bother keeping it varnished, or oak if you don't mind varnish and then a piece of plywood underneath the deck - Plywood saturated with epoxy resin makes great backing plates for anything that needs to go through the hull. 5200 to glue the pieces of the sandwich together and then through bolt the windlass

Whether you're going to use chain or rope for your anchor rode, you're still going to need to replace that big cleat you're removing with something to tie the anchor rode to when you're anchored, so your board may need to be considerably bigger than just large enough to mount the windlass

Maybe . . . . leave the cleat as it is (you'll need it) and mount the windlass aft of it with wood above and below the deck?

Don

[Sunsetrider]

The cleat absolutely needs to be repositioned as there simply isn't enough room for both. Only 22 inches from the roller board to the hatch opening and 20 to the limit of anchor locker. So I have been trying to decide whether to include the repositioned cleat on the new mounting surface or leave it on the deck as it is. It has its own steel backing plate below that I hope to (have to?) pry loose in order to move. Overall it makes sense to include it on the new base. I found a website close to home with an unlimited choice of exotic wood products:

http://www.kjpselecthardwoods.com/exoticwoods.html

I am keenly looking forward to making the choice!

[DesertAlbin736]

Ah yes, I ran into the same problem when I considered removing the funky bowsprit previous owners had installed. I gave up on removing it for the time being, but would like to consider installing a manual windlass some time in the future, something on the order of this Lofrans manual windlass, or alternatively a vertical capstan with both a rope drum and chain gypsy and a better anchor roller platform.

Right now I have bigger fish to fry with my dinghy davit issues, but I'm interested in hearing about solutions to removing 5200 adhesive. I'm a bit surprised that removing the stock cleat is giving you so much trouble.


Here's what our current bowsprit arrangement looks like with a sailboat sheet which that helps raise the anchor but only up to the point where it switches from rope to chain. The last 26 feet of chain plus the anchor have to be hauled in by hand. Plus the winch is not self-tailing. Previous owners removed the stock teak bar cleat and replaced it with a Samson post, which might be a space saving cleat option for you. Ironically I believe this was installed by the Canadian owner in Ontario Province previous to the immediate past owner in Idaho that we bought the boat from. When we first bought the boat the bowsprit was 18 inches longer than this, and I cut it down to be as short as possible while still retaining the anchor roller and chain stopper. It's made of laminated 1x2 strips of what I think is probably mahogany, but short of taking a sawszall or skill saw and chisel to it, it's not going anywhere. Can't even change out the winch since it's bolted to the under side of the bow sprit & not all the way though the deck to where you can get at it from underneath.

DSCN2356crop.jpg

Lofrans manual windlass, my preferred future windlass option

Lofrans manual windlass.jpg

Our bowsprit arrangement as it was when we bought the boat & before I shortened it from extending 3 feet in front of the bow to it's current 16 inches. Previous owners hung two 5 gallon spare fuel cans on it, for who knows what reason, since this boat conservatively has a 180 mile fuel range on 20 gallons with 5 gallons left in reserve. But the manual sheet rope winch and Sampson post remain in place. Note the forestay chain plate and jib tack fittings, since our boat is set up for the sailing rig.

[DesertAlbin736]

I found a website close to home with an unlimited choice of exotic wood products:

Two types of wood might be of interest. One is Iroko, so-called "African Teak". It's not really teak, but close to it and was what I used for the frames of my wheelhouse hatches.

The other is Jatoba, a South American wood that this guy uses as a teak substitute for swim platforms

http://www.theplatformguy.com/index.html


In trying to figure out what to do about installing lifting dinghy davits I've considered I may have to do something different with my existing teak swim platform, but no decisions have been made yet. But if I need to get a different swim platform this may be my go-to guy.

Another wood of interest is Okeume. I used some 9MM teak veneer Okeume marine grade plywood that I had left over from a sailboat companionway hatch project back in the early 2000's for the tops of my wheelhouse hatches.

If I ever have to replace/repair some of the cabin joinery I'd probably go with Sapele.

Wheelhouse hard top hatches framed with Iroko & topped with Okeume teak veneer plywood, grooved and caulked to simulate teak planks.

DSCN2057 (1280x960).jpg

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks DA, I will check into those woods. I hope to rescue an appropriate piece from the Exotic Offcuts bin.

[Beta Don]

Ipe wood is also a good choice for marine use. It looks much like teak, but is even hardier. Also heavier (it doesn't float) and harder - You'll need good drill bits. I used a good deal of it on the boat. I replaced the aft rubrails with larger cross section pieces of Ipe and larger stainless strips as well. I also used 1 1/2 X 3 inch Ipe 'beams' to support my 8 foot cockpit top extension. Ipe *should be* cheaper than many other more exotic woods - It's used as decking for higher end homes because it weathers so well, but it costs much, much less than teak

Don

[Sunsetrider]

I see my local wood place does have Ipe, Don. All this exotic wood stuff is new to me and I find it quite fascinating. I'll be using wood for the windlass base because how could I not with all this good wood at my fingertips? Can't wait to visit the establishment!

[NickScheuer]

I removed all of the wood dowel cleats from our A-25's deck for repainting without problem. Perhaps mine were still bedded with an original product and yours were re-bedded at some point. I would merely twist the bronze ring fittings loose using a steel pipe longer than the dowel, if necessary. Damaging the fiberglass from a too aggressive bond is still easier to fix than cutting out a hole in the deck. BTW, the deck core material is closed cell foam, similar to Airex.